I agree with 6297: Rarely do we point the finger at the supply side.
Back out of a job after acceptance
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how the hell are exploding offers unethical? in fact, pretty much every single job offer in every industry is exploding, though the explosion date might not be explicit. you expect employers to give you an open-ended offer you can accept anytime you like. ridiculous.
You evidently don't understand what an exploding offer is. Having a deadline for the job offer is perfectly reasonable (it would be ridiculous to expect an offer with no deadline). But that's not an exploding offer. An exploding offer is one with an extremely short deadline. Giving someone an offer that expires in 24 hours is borderline unethical.
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Obviously there will be different opinions about what constitutes and "exploding offer." I have never heard of anybody making an offer with a 24 hour deadline, although maybe it does happen. As it is, pretty much all offers come with some sort of deadline, even if it might be a bit flexible.
I doubt that 1140 has had much experience on the demand side and particularly with having had an accepted offer then overturned (presumably one with a deadline more than the mythical 24 hours). Most demand side places are pissed and will make it known.
The significance of having your adviser back you up is that your adviser will be your most important letter of recommendation for the next several years after you are out. It is basically only by the time you are nearing tenurability that your M.P. recedes in importance for you for letters. So, piss of your M.P., you will have trouble getting him/her to support you going anywhere, and most M.P.s will not support what OP is proposing except for exceptional cases.
Another point implicit in some answers is that timing of this matters a lot. So, if you have accepted an offer and two days later you get an obviously way superior offer, you can probably get away with it with minimal damage. Why? Because the place that offered it can probably get back to their list and make another offer without too much difficulty. However, if you wait several months until nearer the end of the market, you can leave them empty-handed unable to hire anybody and possibly in danger of losing the position entirely the next year. This will lead to great and justified anger on their part, with your name becoming mud on the market for some time to come.
BTW, there have been numerous threads on this in the past here. Go look at them, although most of the points made here were made on them also, including the usual small dick jackasses saying "go for it, fuck the demand side." If you fuck them, they will fuck you back, possibly very seriously and big time.
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I got one like that, it was a 36-hour offer. I basically got the offer during flyout, got home, and had no time to reflect or anything. The deadline was a Friday at 5pm. I felt they were coercing me to accept. Really bad. I did not have any options in that 3-day window, but some flyouts coming up. Do you really want to force someone accept an offer that will be dominated by others by playing this kind of game? I did accept the offer, but later on I moved to another school. I resent them to this day.
how the hell are exploding offers unethical? in fact, pretty much every single job offer in every industry is exploding, though the explosion date might not be explicit. you expect employers to give you an open-ended offer you can accept anytime you like. ridiculous.
You evidently don't understand what an exploding offer is. Having a deadline for the job offer is perfectly reasonable (it would be ridiculous to expect an offer with no deadline). But that's not an exploding offer. An exploding offer is one with an extremely short deadline. Giving someone an offer that expires in 24 hours is borderline unethical. -
Just amazed by those who wonder whether this might be unethical and/or find a way to excuse that. Not only it is unethical but it is also breach of contract (even you have no formally signed something any paper trail will be enough). No-one will sue you maybe but you're going to harm to reputation big time.
Just imagine how you'd react if a department were to withdraw an offer (one you want of course)?
Economic life requires some commitments...
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If you’re defining unethical as going against conventional rules of conduct, then yes, it is definitely unethical. All I’m saying is that I’m personally a bit more sympathetic towards the candidate when it’s done after an exploding offer. To 6fa0: I’ve only experienced this once in my short career, and it was after we exploded an offer in 48hrs. The individual accepted and then later reneged. Sure we were pissed and some of us even trashed the candidate on the market. The more I thought about the pressure we put the candidate under, the more I was upset with how “we” handled it. But you’re right -- I don’t have much experience with this. Maybe after a few more I won’t be as sympathetic…
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OK, so maybe there are more of these exploding offers than I was aware of. I have been around for quite some time and had not heard of this before. I can see hiring places tempted to do this, but quite aside from the ethics involved it is also clearly a dumb strategy as it can lead to exactly what is being discussed here, either people accepting and becoming unhappy/pissed off/alienated or people blowing you off after accepting it to go somewhere else. Just dumb all the way around.
BTW, it is also true that you are more able to get away with it if you are a big star, although big stars with bad reps have been discussed on this site quite a bit, and this sort of conduct is indeed unethical and is the sort of thing that becomes the dark trailer to an otherwise big star (yeah, he is very smart and productive, but he is really an asshole). Such people often end up moving around a lot because they are bad dspartment citizens who are bad at getting along with others and/or doing things that people expect them to do (I am too important to serve on your pathetic hiring committee, etc. blah blah blah).
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that is right. Demand side would do it with no hesitation if the position gets cut last minute due to budget problems. then what you 'ethical' demand side bs, what would you do? blame the Administration and bear no consequences? Should we call everyone in the hiring committee unethical? or you can get away with it with no consequences? I see a very asymmetric attitude when it is the demand side that reneges. And that has been hapenning a lot in the last few years due to budget cuts. we ourselves need to move fast or our position might be cut.
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Cancelling a position opening that hasn't been filled isn't reneging on anything. Ads typically say subject to approval, etc. It's very unfortunate, perhaps nearly as much for demand side as for supply side, but it isn't reneging on a valid contract. Just like you applying for the job, getting an offer, and not taking it isn't reneging.
I know this is a stressful time, but try to be grownups. It will pay off in the long run.
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3993 let me get this straight: demand side is fine to renege on an email because of the fine print in the job ad, while supply side is committed to take a job that starts in several months time just because he accepted an email offer? you must a fucking retard.
slavery and indentured service are over my dear 3993, and you have to deal with it. there are laws and courts, thank the fucking god.
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I seriously doubt than any exploding offer has had the chance to go through the administration and comes with a valid, legally binding contract. Using your rationale, you should also realize that a candidate is not reneging on any contract until they have accepted AND the position has been approved by the relevant university board, which usually does not come until much later. Even after a receiving a contract with the dean's signature, it's often not binding until higher university admin or a board of trustees have approved it.
Also, candidates may find it difficult to find another offer if you have made one that you later cancel. Other schools will think your offer dominates and move to another candidate, while the one with your offer is later completely screwed when you cancel the offer before they have accepted or, even worse, after they have accepted but before the "official" university process described above is completed.
The bottom line is that it is a risk for any candidate. They have to accept the possible consequences and make a decision they are comfortable with. Given how early it is in the market, any reasonable school should be willing to accommodate. If they aren't, that's probably a sign that they don't give a shit about you and are happy they locked you into the position. Do you really want to be at that place?
Cancelling a position opening that hasn't been filled isn't reneging on anything. Ads typically say subject to approval, etc. It's very unfortunate, perhaps nearly as much for demand side as for supply side, but it isn't reneging on a valid contract. Just like you applying for the job, getting an offer, and not taking it isn't reneging.
I know this is a stressful time, but try to be grownups. It will pay off in the long run. -
A lot of confusing information and bravado here. Let me address the ethics of a short-deadline offer and the ethics of reneging on an acceptance.
First: The general practice in academia (demand side) and in industry is that an offer is said to "explode" on it's deadline. Such offers are called exploding because they have an explicit deadline. Offers in industry do not always explode (although they implicitly explode if you delay answering without talking to the people making the offer. Offers in academia usually explode on a two week timeline; however, some offers (often to stars) do not explode and some offers that are strategic gambles explode in a few days or less.
Are exploding offers -- offers with a deadline -- unethical? No. In fifteen years of hiring I've found that if somebody cannot decide in two weeks, I will probably regret that hire. As for short-deadline offers (i.e. a few days): no, even these are not unethical. You choose your risk aversion, interview at places you are (supposedly) willing to go to, and then you get an offer allowing the school quick recourse if you say no. Shouldn't you be happy you have an offer and the stress is over? If you truly need more time to think, grow a pair and ask for the time. Be honest: "I need to talk it over with my fiancee," "I'm a bit overwhelmed because I didn't expect things to move so quickly," etc. So the demand side acted strategically. You also acted strategically when you applied, wrote your letter, signaled (maybe), and indicated your interest. When you get an offer, the demand side has written you an option. For free. Remember that.
That said: I have found that quickly exploding offers are rarely a good idea, even in industry. I won more than one person for my group by giving them more time than the other offer and doing the soft sell.
Second: Is it unethical to renege on an acceptance? Yes. However, in industry this is not so unusual and so is not seen as too big a deal. (Remember, though, that the job market for industry is year-round.) In academia, you are playing with fire. And even when stars do it, they sometimes suffer repercussions. The people who are saying this is a small field and life is long: they are right. The academic job market is not year-round, so reneging has serious and lasting consequences. If you are really bothered, then pick up the phone and call the department chair. Explain your situation. They may let you out of it... or not (especially if they have made irrevocable actions).
As for this line of reasoning that "Do they really want me to go there and hate the place and think about how I could have gone to Horvath Institute of Technometrics?" No, we don't want that. However, if you are not enough of an adult to keep your word and you will complain or be miserable for a year before (you think) you can leave... then I suspect that department will be happy to see you go. What about schools pulling an offer? They *hate* doing it because it devalues their reputation. However, when you read "subject to funding and approval," that is why. If the money isn't there or you are a felon, the offer may well go away.
I usually try to be gentle and offer more constructive advice. However, when a child is about to touch a live wire, you drop the niceties. You are welcome to renege on your acceptances; but, I would never advise anyone to do this and I cannot think of many things that are more toxic ways to start a career. Think about how much people gossip here; do you want to be at the center of that? Your word is your bond; and, I am continually amazed how small the academic world is. Keep your word, refocus on what is good about your new employer, and do your best work. If they want you so much, they might really make your life pleasant.
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bad advice from Q36. Say you accept an offer from U Milwaukee but after a couple of days an offer from BU materializes. What would you do? You would be insane to go to motherfucking cheese eating Wisconsin. Whoever advises you to the contrary is a sorry LRM losers.
Fuck the stigma. We are talking about the seven years of your life. Successful people will understand, deadwood will complain, but who cares?
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bad advice from Q36. Say you accept an offer from U Milwaukee but after a couple of days an offer from BU materializes. What would you do? You would be insane to go to motherfucking cheese eating Wisconsin. Whoever advises you to the contrary is a sorry LRM losers.
Fuck the stigma. We are talking about the seven years of your life. Successful people will understand, deadwood will complain, but who cares?You are not talking about seven years of your life. You are talking about a few years, then move in year four. Or you can make an ass of yourself and carry that stigma for far more than seven years.
But hey, I know a guy who will never get a job at a number of places because of something unethical he did more than ten years ago. So knock yourself out. If you are as toxic and idiotic as you sound, people will be glad to help you exit academia.
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Tell me you are kidding. What would be the greatest stigma? Reneging an offer or staying in Milwaukee four years over being at BU?
Plus,you know what? If someone who accepted an offer from us reneged because of another offer from a school located where the wife works, I would shake his hand. You don't understand that there is a life outside work, don't you?
...fucking morons....
You are not talking about seven years of your life. You are talking about a few years, then move in year four.
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Reputations matter bros.
I wanted to clarify why you are getting an exploding offer. It is usually because their close #2. (or whoever is after you in line) got another offer with a deadline. They are lining you up so that they don't lose that person.
However, they could still talk about you even though this means you aren't special. Do you want to take that risk?
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OP- sounds like you are in a difficult position. I hope you can resolve it.
If you come here and ask for advice, don't just flame everyone with whom you disagree. If you want advice, take it or don't, but don't tell people making sincere responses that they are idiots. If you just want your own opinion to be validated, ask a dog.