Economics Job Market Rumors

1. Economist
   a83c
   

   Demand side. We are in the market. We have our first batch of flyouts scheduled. We will make an offer after we reviewed them all. If someone accepts and then reneges, this is obviously not good. But there are special circunstances and we need to understand, especially when it involves a spouse.
   The damage will depend on how long it takes to renege and when this happens in the market. If this takes at most 2 weeks after accepting the offer and it happens now or until mid of February, we can still go back and make offers to other candidates. However, this would be very costly if it happens in end of February or in March. At this point the market is almost clear.

   Don't worry, I will most likely still be available in March.

   Posted 3 months ago # QUOTE 4 GOOD 1 NO GOOD

2. Economist
   6392
   

   Demand side. I disagree with a83c. Whether you renege due to your spouse or yourself, you still renege. The timing is relatively unimportant.

   Posted 3 months ago # QUOTE 2 GOOD 1 NO GOOD

3. Economist
   e70c
   

   An offer with a 2-week deadline is not an exploding offer. This is almost customary and there's nothing wrong about that.
   An offer with less than a 24/48 hour deadline is an exploding offer. The worst are when they call you and tell you to accept or reject it right away. They do this to minimize any possible negotiation and give you the worst possible terms. And given that it's usually a sketchy offer, the final offer, sometimes when you already made arrangements to work there and too late to find another job, comes with further surprises and bombs.

   These offers should be punished. The institutions doing this, usually seedy and low-rank, should be advertised to warn any possible applicant. And anyone accepting it, usually because of need, should be entitled to renege no matter what such institution says everyone else. If the applicant still accepts anyway, he or she should look for another job asap, and not allow those douches to get away with it.

   Posted 3 months ago # QUOTE 9 GOOD 0 NO GOOD

4. Economist
   ef17
   

   And given that it's usually a sketchy offer, the final offer, sometimes when you already made arrangements to work there and too late to find another job, comes with further surprises and bombs.

   What about this, ever hear of cases where a candidate "reneges" after receiving terms that differ from what was originally described, or after objecting to a detail in the contract that was not previously discussed? This sounds like a free out.

   Posted 3 months ago # QUOTE 2 GOOD 0 NO GOOD

5. Economist
   11ff
   

   No, you just get back to the head/chair and tell him the letter disagrees from what you discussed.

   However, this points out a good practice: After a phone call with terms, email what you recall immediately to the person prefaced with "Just to confirm our conversation: You said ..." That way you can clear up any confusion and have written documentation of agreed terms.

   Posted 3 months ago # QUOTE 2 GOOD 0 NO GOOD

6. Economist
   f206
   

   five years from now even they won't remember

   I know it is bad, but I received a better offer. Will this imply stigma?

   Posted 3 months ago # QUOTE 0 GOOD 1 NO GOOD

7. Economist
   ef2c
   

   what?! i always remember getting screwed over by a job candidate.

   five years from now even they won't remember
   I know it is bad, but I received a better offer. Will this imply stigma?

   Posted 3 months ago # QUOTE 2 GOOD 0 NO GOOD

8. Economist
   8b91
   

   !

   Posted 3 months ago # QUOTE 0 GOOD 0 NO GOOD

9. Economist
   d847
   

   If you accept an exploding offer, you should immediately take yourself out of the market, so that other places stop considering you. This takes the regret factor away, and also allows the other schools to make more informed decisions.

   Posted 3 months ago # QUOTE 1 GOOD 1 NO GOOD

10. Economist
    8ca7
    

    Bumping superior thread.

    Posted 2 months ago # QUOTE 0 GOOD 1 NO GOOD

11. Economist
    34f3
    

    Hayek once backed out of an offer.

    Posted 2 months ago # QUOTE 0 GOOD 0 NO GOOD

12. Economist
    a0eb
    

    It will imply smegma

    I know it is bad, but I received a better offer. Will this imply stigma?

    Posted 2 months ago # QUOTE 0 GOOD 0 NO GOOD

13. Economist
    c88e
    

    I had the reverse happen. Seriously. The department chair called me and said they had voted to make me an offer, and that I'd get the terms and formal letter within a week.

    It never came. There was some hiccup at the level of the Dean, or so they told me.

    I'm still pissed off about it.

    Posted 2 months ago # QUOTE 0 GOOD 1 NO GOOD

14. Economist
    4e09
    

    Li did it. It's ok.

    Posted 2 months ago # QUOTE 0 GOOD 1 NO GOOD

15. Economist
    c88e
    

    Li did it. It's ok.

    Fuk Li?

    Posted 2 months ago # QUOTE 0 GOOD 0 NO GOOD

16. Economist
    983d
    

    what was the deal with li? isn't northwestern angry? did columbia gsb really give her a job after she negged them and formally signed somewhere else? i don't get how this is possible. is this how the market works?

    Posted 2 months ago # QUOTE 0 GOOD 0 NO GOOD

17. Economist
    c952
    

    I've said something similar to what I'm about to say on previous threads related to this topic. As much as I typically agree with Q36 and think he is one of the best assets of this board, I wholeheartedly disagree.

    I'm four years out of grad school now, and here are two lessons that I think every current candidate should take to heart:
    1. your employer doesn't give a shit about treating you "ethically." They care about not getting sued/breaking the law and about profit-maximization (or whatever the objective for academic institutions is assumed to be). If it suits his purposes, your employer will renege on an offer or a contract without a second thought for what that does to your life. I've seen two guys laid off while in the middle of their 6-year tenure track contract, and not for any sort of ethics breach or other offenses (other than perhaps not being as productive as one would hope). No consequences to the school. Maybe there was fine print somewhere, similar to the "subject to funding and approval" line that is in most job ads. Those are called weasel words for a good reason - your employer is a weasel.
    2. The further into your career you get, the more unimportant are your adviser's opinion and any sort of reputation effects that might arise from reneging on an accepted offer (unless the only reason you have achieved any modicum of success is because your superstar adviser really helped you out). This is because of two things: a. Assuming that you are any good, you will quickly branch out, create your own network, and move well beyond your adviser's reach, and
    b. People forget things that happened more than 1 year ago.

    In all cases, you should do what is best for you. Your employer will certainly do what is best for him. But you also must remember that this means you can't trust even a verbal offer. Suppose you renege on school A to take school B's verbal offer, but then school B backs out. Where does that leave you? Even if you have it in writing, there are probably weasel words that can let them renege. What are you going to do, sue?

    Posted 2 months ago # QUOTE 0 GOOD 0 NO GOOD

18. Economist
    4e09
    

    Nobody really cares that Li did it. She and her faux-partner gamed the system.

    what was the deal with li? isn't northwestern angry? did columbia gsb really give her a job after she negged them and formally signed somewhere else? i don't get how this is possible. is this how the market works?

    Posted 2 months ago # QUOTE 1 GOOD 0 NO GOOD

19. Economist
    ad0d
    

    who the fuck is Li?

    Posted 2 months ago # QUOTE 0 GOOD 0 NO GOOD

20. Economist
    983d
    

    li / mit kellogg reneg -> columbia gsb (after having turned down their offer a few days before)

    possibly brilliant gaming of the system by launching a pseudo joint search to leverage offers. but i'm not totally convinced.

    Posted 2 months ago # QUOTE 1 GOOD 0 NO GOOD

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