6498 = Roubini
Pretty disillusioned (in fenance)... is industry a decent option? Q36 or anyone
-
would have thought that OP would be nearly insta-disqualified because of the "LRM" thing.
Isn't finance even more concerned with pedigree than academia?The investment banking side of finance is (although the most successful PE guy I know went to Iowa). Research is much more like academia: about ideas and intelligence. The trading side, however, can be almost blue collar in how anti-pedigree it is.
I remember a new kid stepping onto the floor and a trader getting right in his face.
Trader: "So you went to the University of Chicago, huh? Have you ever traded?"
Kid: "No, but..."
Trader: "Then why the f**k are you here? Did they teach you to make money?"
Kid: "Well..."
Trader: "Uh huh. That would be no. So you're all cost. If you lose money, it's coming out of my bonus and I will make sure you get fired."That trader is now head of the desk. His "pedigree" was St Johns College or SUNY Buffalo -- and being a quick enough thinker to make more money than others. So no, not all finance is pedigree.
-
And you don't know me, I am vastly more successful in anything you can imagine than some lousy trader at the bottom of financial food chain.
Don't tell me you're successful; show me. If you are successful, you would know how to turn any situation more to your advantage. Your success would also be apparent from your advice and from what you say. All I read in your posts is a whiney pessimist who can't stand the idea of anyone else being successful.
-
I see. You've gotta be at least like top 3 for useful posters on this board. Ignore 6498, he's just trying to troll you.
Thanks, but I doubt it. Some people here post insanely useful advice.
I know he's a troll, but sometimes I flush a troll out so that everybody sees how full of shit he is.
-
Q36: I respect your views as always and pretty much agree with your posts here. Some MFEs get very good jobs, e.g. Exotic rates trading, but that might be selection bias. About 15 years ago when CMU, Columbia and Chicago started quant masters, it was a novel degree and prospects at graduation were bright. Now many schools like Colorado State, Temple and NC State have started degrees, adding to the general glut.
Obviously, someone graduating at the top of the class at Stanford, Princeton, Columbia etc. has good prospects but the average to below-average student, probably has a cursory understanding of the material and won't be able to land a front-office position.
In finance PhD programs, many do not have the strong technical skilks. When I was in grad school, most econ and finance students never took a class in the stats, math, CS or IE departments. C++ is explicitly not taught in any finance program I am aware of. So basically it comes down to self-study and persistence.
OP: better to try and fail than not try at all. Prepare well and go for it!
Btw: "commissioned" sorry
-
6498 is full of shit, there is very little family connection advantage to getting a job in banking aside from the limiting case where (eg) your dad owns a fund and has got you a summer internship every year since high school. The people who get into Tier 1 banks from undergrad are generally those at the most prestigious univeristies but having wealthy parents doesnt help beyond the general extra-curricular advantages to your CV that come from a privileged upbringing. When it comes to quant/research stuff at PhD level the family connection means nothing whatsoever.
You sound like youre just bitter because you failed your goldman interview
-
"The investment banking side of finance is (although the most successful PE guy I know went to Iowa). Research is much more like academia: about ideas and intelligence. The trading side, however, can be almost blue collar in how anti-pedigree it is."
I dont think this is true however; when I was working as a quant in the UK (Tier 1 bank) I dont think I met anyone who wasnt from oxbridge/london. I'm guessing America is similar. Its probably possible to break in if you dont come from a brand name university but its going to be much much harder.
-
The blue-collar thing was true in the 80s though, its just changed a lot. If you look at older traders in their 40s then you might find people who come from surprising backgrounds, but the younger graduate scheme hires will all be from top universities. Its different at prop shops, but banks put a huge weight on academic pedigree.
-
http://milescorak.com/2011/11/11/inequality-and-occupy-wall-street-4-daddy-put-you-in-the-top-1/
Almost 7 out of 10 sons of top earning dads had a job with his employer.
-
It depends on the product- if you're talking cash bonds, cash equities, CDS, the most likely profile is a guy who played football or lacrosse at Lehigh, Duke, Virginia, Cornell or similar.
A math/CS brainiac who did not do varsity sports will probably not get into trading. The exception is the small number of quant trading spots. These people fit the demographics and academic background of most econ PhD students.
In sales, being an attractive woman is most helpful. If you're a guy, then you'll want to be the guy who snorts coke with his former frat brothers on route to a polo match in the Hamptons.
-
I dont think this is true however; when I was working as a quant in the UK (Tier 1 bank) I dont think I met anyone who wasnt from oxbridge/london. I'm guessing America is similar. Its probably possible to break in if you dont come from a brand name university but its going to be much much harder.
I know that is your experience -- because many of the non-Oxbridge types came to the US. I know one from Kent (IIRC) who now runs his own firm and one from Manchester+LBS who is now a senior MD.
The blue-collar thing was true in the 80s though, its just changed a lot. If you look at older traders in their 40s then you might find people who come from surprising backgrounds, but the younger graduate scheme hires will all be from top universities. Its different at prop shops, but banks put a huge weight on academic pedigree.
That exchange was in 2002 or so. The culture is less blue collar, but not lily white. (Perhaps the culture has long memory?) So now intelligent people get recruited and they end up learning how to get in somebody's face. Which can be pretty funny when the exchange is along the lines of "Do you even f**king know what PC1 is? What will it be next week? I don't know? I can't f**king hedge this shit; it's time varying garbage!"
-
would have thought that OP would be nearly insta-disqualified because of the "LRM" thing.
Isn't finance even more concerned with pedigree than academia?
The investment banking side of finance is (although the most successful PE guy I know went to Iowa). Research is much more like academia: about ideas and intelligence. The trading side, however, can be almost blue collar in how anti-pedigree it is.
I remember a new kid stepping onto the floor and a trader getting right in his face.
Trader: "So you went to the University of Chicago, huh? Have you ever traded?"
Kid: "No, but..."
Trader: "Then why the f**k are you here? Did they teach you to make money?"
Kid: "Well..."
Trader: "Uh huh. That would be no. So you're all cost. If you lose money, it's coming out of my bonus and I will make sure you get fired."
That trader is now head of the desk. His "pedigree" was St Johns College or SUNY Buffalo -- and being a quick enough thinker to make more money than others. So no, not all finance is pedigree.you just lost all credibility here. Were not talking about swiftrade traders bro...
-
http://milescorak.com/2011/1 1/11/inequality-and-occupy-wall-street-4-daddy-put-you-in-the-top-1/
Almost 7 out of 10 sons of top earning dads had a job with his employer.”had a job” (once) =/= stayed in finance or well paid
occutard reasoning in the jle? yawn