People used to decide between academia and industry as career paths based on relatively fixed trade-offs. Academia offered job security through tenure, autonomy, and being surrounded by brilliant minds. Industry jobs offered higher pay, but less autonomy, fewer aspi3s/more corporate dr0nes. People who were brilliant or who wanted autonomy chose academia. In recent years, the waters have been muddied and the lines blurred. Lots of smart people not finding academic employment and moving into industry. Frequent attacks at the tenure system. Hollowing out the tenure system from within through cancel culture. Erosion of academic standards by DEI. More autonomy in industry through the pandemic and resulting home office flexibility. Corporatization of academia. Increase in brainpower needed in tech and finance jobs in industry through ML and other technological changes. People are confused, and many oscillate between academia and industry as career choices. Where are we headed?
Academia or industry as a career choice
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There are no choices anymore. There are so few jobs for Econ PhDs, that the job market will decide for you. Only a very small number of people will actually have a meaningful choice. No point in mulling over what you prefer when you'll never have a part in deciding.
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There are no choices anymore. There are so few jobs for Econ PhDs, that the job market will decide for you. Only a very small number of people will actually have a meaningful choice. No point in mulling over what you prefer when you'll never have a part in deciding.
Came in here just to post this.
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There are no choices anymore. There are so few jobs for Econ PhDs, that the job market will decide for you. Only a very small number of people will actually have a meaningful choice. No point in mulling over what you prefer when you'll never have a part in deciding.
Came in here just to post this.
Economists mull over hypothetical, unrealistic scenarios in their models all the time. Whether it's a moot point or not is a moot point.
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From someone that spent 5 years in academia, with multiple top 5s, and is now in industry, I can say that there is a big difference between the two jobs.
Academia:
Pros:
1. You do what you want every single day. Absent some meetings and teaching, you can sleep all day on a Wednesday and compensate on Sunday.
2. You mostly do and work on what you think is interesting. No one is telling you what to work on besides teaching and service.
3. For some (most here) it is a respectable job. I felt proud to say I was a professor.Cons:
1. You have very little location flexibility. You go where you get the job and you are often encouraged to move to the middle of nowhere just to go to a higher ranked place.
2. Huge pressure to deliver on the long-term. And most of it is out of your control (think marginal R&Rs and slow referees). (Over time this is diluted but at the first 5 years chance plays a huge role)
3. Small outside options if you want to stay in academia. you can’t just decide to move to Nyc or Paris on a whim or change institutions if you don’t like your chair. You are mostly stuck.Industry:
Pros:
1. Huge salaries. I earn 3x more than in my previous job. Literally.
2. Huge job/location flexibility. I can live wherever I want and change jobs on a 6 months basis if I decide to do so. I can also ask for internal transfers if I don’t like my boss.Cons:
1. No day to day flexibility. You need to show up (online or in person) every single day. Go to endless meetings and do the work you are assigned. You can’t just not show up one day.
2. You only partially decide what you can work on. Mostly it is decided by your boss or internal partners.
3. Pressure to deliver on a more short-term basis then in academia, where the pressure is long-term starts tenure time.
4. Potentially (if you are unlucky) Boring meetings, boring projects and extremely annoying meetings.
5. You have to deal with annoying coworkers. You don’t chose who you work with.I think this is a fair description. I don’t think there is a better job, but they are indeed very different. I miss my academic job even though I enjoy being able to chose where I live and having way more money.
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From someone that spent 5 years in academia, with multiple top 5s, and is now in industry, I can say that there is a big difference between the two jobs.
Academia:
Pros:
1. You do what you want every single day. Absent some meetings and teaching, you can sleep all day on a Wednesday and compensate on Sunday.
2. You mostly do and work on what you think is interesting. No one is telling you what to work on besides teaching and service.
3. For some (most here) it is a respectable job. I felt proud to say I was a professor.
Cons:
1. You have very little location flexibility. You go where you get the job and you are often encouraged to move to the middle of nowhere just to go to a higher ranked place.
2. Huge pressure to deliver on the long-term. And most of it is out of your control (think marginal R&Rs and slow referees). (Over time this is diluted but at the first 5 years chance plays a huge role)
3. Small outside options if you want to stay in academia. you can’t just decide to move to Nyc or Paris on a whim or change institutions if you don’t like your chair. You are mostly stuck.
Industry:
Pros:
1. Huge salaries. I earn 3x more than in my previous job. Literally.
2. Huge job/location flexibility. I can live wherever I want and change jobs on a 6 months basis if I decide to do so. I can also ask for internal transfers if I don’t like my boss.
Cons:
1. No day to day flexibility. You need to show up (online or in person) every single day. Go to endless meetings and do the work you are assigned. You can’t just not show up one day.
2. You only partially decide what you can work on. Mostly it is decided by your boss or internal partners.
3. Pressure to deliver on a more short-term basis then in academia, where the pressure is long-term starts tenure time.
4. Potentially (if you are unlucky) Boring meetings, boring projects and extremely annoying meetings.
5. You have to deal with annoying coworkers. You don’t chose who you work with.
I think this is a fair description. I don’t think there is a better job, but they are indeed very different. I miss my academic job even though I enjoy being able to chose where I live and having way more money.I am certain there is no industry jobs that would triple my salary to 500k
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Academia by Choice...there's money in industry, but little prestige.
There is no prestige in academia, so a win for industry.
Also, to amend b375's good post, I've found you really don't actually get to work on what you want in academia. There are trends and fads that if you don't follow them, you could easily end up not getting tenure. Also, if grants are a part of your job, then you could easily end up working on stuff you don't want to do.
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From someone that spent 5 years in academia, with multiple top 5s, and is now in industry, I can say that there is a big difference between the two jobs.
Academia:
Pros:
1. You do what you want every single day. Absent some meetings and teaching, you can sleep all day on a Wednesday and compensate on Sunday.
2. You mostly do and work on what you think is interesting. No one is telling you what to work on besides teaching and service.
3. For some (most here) it is a respectable job. I felt proud to say I was a professor.
Cons:
1. You have very little location flexibility. You go where you get the job and you are often encouraged to move to the middle of nowhere just to go to a higher ranked place.
2. Huge pressure to deliver on the long-term. And most of it is out of your control (think marginal R&Rs and slow referees). (Over time this is diluted but at the first 5 years chance plays a huge role)
3. Small outside options if you want to stay in academia. you can’t just decide to move to Nyc or Paris on a whim or change institutions if you don’t like your chair. You are mostly stuck.
Industry:
Pros:
1. Huge salaries. I earn 3x more than in my previous job. Literally.
2. Huge job/location flexibility. I can live wherever I want and change jobs on a 6 months basis if I decide to do so. I can also ask for internal transfers if I don’t like my boss.
Cons:
1. No day to day flexibility. You need to show up (online or in person) every single day. Go to endless meetings and do the work you are assigned. You can’t just not show up one day.
2. You only partially decide what you can work on. Mostly it is decided by your boss or internal partners.
3. Pressure to deliver on a more short-term basis then in academia, where the pressure is long-term starts tenure time.
4. Potentially (if you are unlucky) Boring meetings, boring projects and extremely annoying meetings.
5. You have to deal with annoying coworkers. You don’t chose who you work with.
I think this is a fair description. I don’t think there is a better job, but they are indeed very different. I miss my academic job even though I enjoy being able to chose where I live and having way more money.You actually left around the right time about 1/2 a decade ago when I was just starting out my phd path.
Today, the industry options for econ PhDs got cratered by CS PhDs.
Was recently interviewed for an economist position where the job post is exactly what I do for my research. One of the questions was akin to "what can you bring to the table that a ML engineer cannot?" There were also some other questions. It's clear that we can answer each one with econometrics, or some IO structural estimations. We, phd economists, also have deep knowledge where we can apply to that position.
I was not offered the job, but instead went to a CS phd who does nothing close to the job post.
So really econ PhDs should expect this if you want to aim for industry jobs. I know all the boomers will say that "econ PhD prepares you for academia!", but so does a CS phd. However, CS phd have much better industry-academia collaboration since many CS phds from top programs actually go into industry (Google, Microsoft Research) who then go on to collaborate with their academic advisors. This path seems extremely healthy and keeps the major in-demand and up to date.
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this is so silly. Being an academic at a good University is very prestigious. you're just bitter lemon.
Academia by Choice...there's money in industry, but little prestige.
There is no prestige in academia, so a win for industry.
Also, to amend b375's good post, I've found you really don't actually get to work on what you want in academia. There are trends and fads that if you don't follow them, you could easily end up not getting tenure. Also, if grants are a part of your job, then you could easily end up working on stuff you don't want to do. -
this is completely made up.
From someone that spent 5 years in academia, with multiple top 5s, and is now in industry, I can say that there is a big difference between the two jobs.
Academia:
Pros:
1. You do what you want every single day. Absent some meetings and teaching, you can sleep all day on a Wednesday and compensate on Sunday.
2. You mostly do and work on what you think is interesting. No one is telling you what to work on besides teaching and service.
3. For some (most here) it is a respectable job. I felt proud to say I was a professor.
Cons:
1. You have very little location flexibility. You go where you get the job and you are often encouraged to move to the middle of nowhere just to go to a higher ranked place.
2. Huge pressure to deliver on the long-term. And most of it is out of your control (think marginal R&Rs and slow referees). (Over time this is diluted but at the first 5 years chance plays a huge role)
3. Small outside options if you want to stay in academia. you can’t just decide to move to Nyc or Paris on a whim or change institutions if you don’t like your chair. You are mostly stuck.
Industry:
Pros:
1. Huge salaries. I earn 3x more than in my previous job. Literally.
2. Huge job/location flexibility. I can live wherever I want and change jobs on a 6 months basis if I decide to do so. I can also ask for internal transfers if I don’t like my boss.
Cons:
1. No day to day flexibility. You need to show up (online or in person) every single day. Go to endless meetings and do the work you are assigned. You can’t just not show up one day.
2. You only partially decide what you can work on. Mostly it is decided by your boss or internal partners.
3. Pressure to deliver on a more short-term basis then in academia, where the pressure is long-term starts tenure time.
4. Potentially (if you are unlucky) Boring meetings, boring projects and extremely annoying meetings.
5. You have to deal with annoying coworkers. You don’t chose who you work with.
I think this is a fair description. I don’t think there is a better job, but they are indeed very different. I miss my academic job even though I enjoy being able to chose where I live and having way more money.You actually left around the right time about 1/2 a decade ago when I was just starting out my phd path.
Today, the industry options for econ PhDs got cratered by CS PhDs.
Was recently interviewed for an economist position where the job post is exactly what I do for my research. One of the questions was akin to "what can you bring to the table that a ML engineer cannot?" There were also some other questions. It's clear that we can answer each one with econometrics, or some IO structural estimations. We, phd economists, also have deep knowledge where we can apply to that position.
I was not offered the job, but instead went to a CS phd who does nothing close to the job post.
So really econ PhDs should expect this if you want to aim for industry jobs. I know all the boomers will say that "econ PhD prepares you for academia!", but so does a CS phd. However, CS phd have much better industry-academia collaboration since many CS phds from top programs actually go into industry (Google, Microsoft Research) who then go on to collaborate with their academic advisors. This path seems extremely healthy and keeps the major in-demand and up to date. -
the funny part is that nobody actually cares about HYPSM in the tech world. San jose state grads make more money than Yale grads.
>> I am certain there is no industry jobs that would triple my salary to 500k
You are 100% wrong. It’s not uncommon for a 22 year old from HYPSM to make 400k in Year 1.Completely false.