Maybe they would not have set it on for if they weren't beaten by hired thugs.
Things hired by CCP members.
As a hongkong bro, let me tell you the history of Hongkong
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Same old ChinaBro here. I feel deeply sorry for the situation in HK now. I think Xi's policy is backwards and I worry about a "one country one system" outcome.
My questions for the HKBro are: what's your solution? What are the lessons learned from previous protests?
I wish I have answers for you but I don't. But there are two thoughts I want to share with you:
1. HKers are HKers. I think it's a valuable opposition voice to CCP. But do you have to make that point by saying you prefer being British colony?
2. Please remember there are mainlanders who don't like the CCP way of doing things either. Why treat us as if we are enemies too? Tiananmen tragedy happened 30 years before you. In fact, I would even join your protests today--but no masks (in pre-covid sense of the world). I don't recall anyone at Tiananmen wore a mask. And, at Tiananmen, no subway was being set on fire by protesters.Dude the current generation of hkers above 25 were all born British subjects. Isn't it natural they have some deep feelings for their lives under the British who did rule with a very light hand, provided a decent system, had a large impact on hk culture (you can see the food, language, road names, education were all influenced by the British) and treated the hkers well and mostly as an equal after 1960s.
HK has probably exceeded the most parts of the UK in terms of standards of living (maybe except london).
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Alas... no masks because we were ready to go to jail or even die for what we believe in.
You might have misunderstood my question. Let me ask again: given CCP is to enact the law, what do you think would be the best way to respond?
They did not wore masks because there were not facial recognition cameras everywhere.
What's the solution!?
Just leave HK alone, don't enact the law.
Quite simple.
Just let people live their lives and respect them
But you ar ejust regurgitating people's daily in a nice way. -
Full independence
There can be no reconciliation with China
Alas... no masks because we were ready to go to jail or even die for what we believe in.
You might have misunderstood my question. Let me ask again: given CCP is to enact the law, what do you think would be the best way to respond?They did not wore masks because there were not facial recognition cameras everywhere.
What's the solution!?
Just leave HK alone, don't enact the law.
Quite simple.
Just let people live their lives and respect them
But you ar ejust regurgitating people's daily in a nice way. -
I can see that--but that's more like having a friendly relationship with UK. But do HKers seriously want to be ruined by UK again? I thought the end goal is to have an independent HK?
Chris Patten can walk around hk without bodyguards and I guess most hkers will treat him as a mate and shake his hands.
Xi jin ping, I am not so sure... -
... sure. but how?
Full independence
There can be no reconciliation with ChinaAlas... no masks because we were ready to go to jail or even die for what we believe in.
You might have misunderstood my question. Let me ask again: given CCP is to enact the law, what do you think would be the best way to respond?They did not wore masks because there were not facial recognition cameras everywhere.
What's the solution!?
Just leave HK alone, don't enact the law.
Quite simple.
Just let people live their lives and respect them
But you ar ejust regurgitating people's daily in a nice way. -
sorry, I meant "ruled"...
I can see that--but that's more like having a friendly relationship with UK. But do HKers seriously want to be ruined by UK again? I thought the end goal is to have an independent HK?
Chris Patten can walk around hk without bodyguards and I guess most hkers will treat him as a mate and shake his hands.
Xi jin ping, I am not so sure...
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I can see that--but that's more like having a friendly relationship with UK. But do HKers seriously want to be ruined by UK again? I thought the end goal is to have an independent HK?
Chris Patten can walk around hk without bodyguards and I guess most hkers will treat him as a mate and shake his hands.
Xi jin ping, I am not so sure...
To have a sovereign HK, you need a HK army and air force to rival mainland first. Which is not possible for HK.
Without military might, anything else is just cheap talk.
Under the UK military, hk can be sovereign, at least there is deterrence.
Of course that is not going to happen. The most the UK can do is to offer citinzenships. It is 2020 not 1850 anymore.
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See this is what reveals that you are just a slave to CCP propaganda, even though you don’t know it.
“Ruined by UK”? HK was an empty rock in 1840. Millions of Chinese went there to live and build lives under the relatively benign governance of the UK, and to escape China. A rock was turned into the greatest city on Earth, and a civilization, by a partnership of British and Cantonese. Ruined it? The UK and the Cantonese created it. Something created by somebody else was handed over to the CCP dictatorship. It is the CCP dictatorship ruining what others created.
But you would never know that. Because you swallow the CCP line.
You come on here trying to be “reasonable”. You are not reasonable. You are a puppet. Go away.
I can see that--but that's more like having a friendly relationship with UK. But do HKers seriously want to be ruined by UK again? I thought the end goal is to have an independent HK?
Chris Patten can walk around hk without bodyguards and I guess most hkers will treat him as a mate and shake his hands.
Xi jin ping, I am not so sure...
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I see. That's a good point. Do you think there's going to be UK citizenship granted just like the Tiananmen green cards? How likely is that?
I can see that--but that's more like having a friendly relationship with UK. But do HKers seriously want to be ruined by UK again? I thought the end goal is to have an independent HK?
Chris Patten can walk around hk without bodyguards and I guess most hkers will treat him as a mate and shake his hands.
Xi jin ping, I am not so sure...
To have a sovereign HK, you need a HK army and air force to rival mainland first. Which is not possible for HK.
Without military might, anything else is just cheap talk.
Under the UK military, hk can be sovereign, at least there is deterrence.
Of course that is not going to happen. The most the UK can do is to offer citinzenships. It is 2020 not 1850 anymore. -
I see. That's a good point. Do you think there's going to be UK citizenship granted just like the Tiananmen green cards? How likely is that?
I can see that--but that's more like having a friendly relationship with UK. But do HKers seriously want to be ruined by UK again? I thought the end goal is to have an independent HK?
Chris Patten can walk around hk without bodyguards and I guess most hkers will treat him as a mate and shake his hands.
Xi jin ping, I am not so sure...
To have a sovereign HK, you need a HK army and air force to rival mainland first. Which is not possible for HK.
Without military might, anything else is just cheap talk.
Under the UK military, hk can be sovereign, at least there is deterrence.
Of course that is not going to happen. The most the UK can do is to offer citinzenships. It is 2020 not 1850 anymore.
I dunno. Maybe. Maybe not.
The UK had many colonies most of us have moved on to build our own identities and have no feelings (good or bad) toward the UK anymore. Even Australia and Ireland I believe want to become republics.
Hk is special as it was the last British colony on earth. If Britain extends citizenship, good for both places.
Hk has to navigate its post 97 reality itself.
It still is a very decent place to live in despite some issues (mostly cost of housing and depressed wages).
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That's my feeling too. To 5da0 as well, this is not a "being reasonable" post. This is just my feelings. I have been really sad lately to see the troubling news. To me, HK is, like in Lo Ta-yu's song, the Pearl of the Orient. I wish it'll still be that way for years to come. As a mainlander, " the post 97 reality" has always been the reality for us. We haven't found good solutions yet. And at this moment, I don't know what can be good solutions for you. All I can wish you is good luck.
I dunno. Maybe. Maybe not.
The UK had many colonies most of us have moved on to build our own identities and have no feelings (good or bad) toward the UK anymore. Even Australia and Ireland I believe want to become republics.
Hk is special as it was the last British colony on earth. If Britain extends citizenship, good for both places.
Hk has to navigate its post 97 reality itself.
It still is a very decent place to live in despite some issues (mostly cost of housing and depressed wages). -
The only reason why China has not taken over Taiwan is because Taiwan with 20m created a strong military.
If not, china would long have taken it over by force.
Taiwan cannot win a war with china but it can deter it that is enough. China also doesn't want to kill a few million Taiwanese and be embargoed by the world it has enough issues to deal with.
In the case of HK, china doesn't need to use force at all. A lot of the civil servants and top businessmen are already loyal to china, they have infiltrated the city, by sending mainlanders over and by persuading some HKers to support them.
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That's my feeling too. To 5da0 as well, this is not a "being reasonable" post. This is just my feelings. I have been really sad lately to see the troubling news. To me, HK is, like in Lo Ta-yu's song, the Pearl of the Orient. I wish it'll still be that way for years to come. As a mainlander, " the post 97 reality" has always been the reality for us. We haven't found good solutions yet. And at this moment, I don't know what can be good solutions for you. All I can wish you is good luck.
I dunno. Maybe. Maybe not.
The UK had many colonies most of us have moved on to build our own identities and have no feelings (good or bad) toward the UK anymore. Even Australia and Ireland I believe want to become republics.
Hk is special as it was the last British colony on earth. If Britain extends citizenship, good for both places.
Hk has to navigate its post 97 reality itself.
It still is a very decent place to live in despite some issues (mostly cost of housing and depressed wages).
HK bro here. To be very honest, this trend (the so-called post-97 reality) was inevitable. Chinese rule of HK is fundamentally different than British rule - and it's not just because one country is autocratic and the other is democratic.
The British always treated HK as a colony - a place where they can derive as much benefits from as possible - in HK's case it means doing business. The wellbeing of locals wasn't considered a very serious issue until the 1960's when it became apparent that not fixing the social problems (housing, corruption, etc.) would be detrimental to their business interests. That's when they started caring about improving locals' living conditions, and they did very well on that. That is, they were always happy to just leave the locals alone, and only manipulate/interfere as much as necessary to maintain their business interests.
China is a different story. Like Britain, China wants to do business in/through Hong Kong. The difference is, in China, business is intertwined with the political system in ways unimaginable in the west. Companies are allowed to survive only because they benefit the party and/or some top officials. Corporations (say) like Google, if allowed to exist independently of party control, can be serious threats to the political system. Companies like Huawei, Baidu, Tencent, and others are rewarded because the work they do helps strengthen CCP rule and their loyalty; while others are punished for not abiding with CCP (see NBA for a recent example). That's why in HK, China doesn't just want to control the economic system, they have to tightly control its political system as well.
So now, Hong Kong is pretty much dead. After Hong Kong, China will need another hub to connect their business interests with the rest of the world. It could be Singapore, London, San Francisco, Toronto or wherever it is. But the same thing will happen to this new hub - they probably can't beat people up with police brutality, but they will infiltrate your political systems (see Australia and Canada) to make sure they get what they want.
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It is not that Taiwan simply deters or HK needs a reliable defense against China. Something depends on the mood in the US, but Taiwan is essentially backed by the US. This is not the case for HK. Protecting the way of life of colonial Chinese is not a diplomatic priority, and why should the UK give them citizenship—shameless beggary...
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Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation, Bro! And I want to say this to you all first: 加油香港!
I can see your pessimistic prediction that "Hong Kong is pretty much dead". Correct me if I am wrong, I feel like all the protest you were doing is to prevent this prediction from becoming reality.
Now comes the "being reasonable" part of me: do you think those protests were working or are they incentivizing CCP to respond with harsher responses? To be more precise, when you were protesting last year, were you foreseeing what is going to happen today?
A few mentioned Singapore in this thread. Do you foresee HK could become Singapor-ish one day? Also, to many mainlanders outside of mainland, myself included, Singapore is a puzzling reality: seems to me, CCP learned a lot of its tactics from Singapore... What's more depressing is LKY's prediction on the fate of TW many years ago (I think many mainlanders know this line as well): " I don't think US is going to start a war with China because of TW: to US, TW is a peripheral interest. To China, TW is a core interest." Do you think this line of reasoning has changed after, IDK, 20 years?
HK bro here. To be very honest, this trend (the so-called post-97 reality) was inevitable. Chinese rule of HK is fundamentally different than British rule - and it's not just because one country is autocratic and the other is democratic.
The British always treated HK as a colony - a place where they can derive as much benefits from as possible - in HK's case it means doing business. The wellbeing of locals wasn't considered a very serious issue until the 1960's when it became apparent that not fixing the social problems (housing, corruption, etc.) would be detrimental to their business interests. That's when they started caring about improving locals' living conditions, and they did very well on that. That is, they were always happy to just leave the locals alone, and only manipulate/interfere as much as necessary to maintain their business interests.
China is a different story. Like Britain, China wants to do business in/through Hong Kong. The difference is, in China, business is intertwined with the political system in ways unimaginable in the west. Companies are allowed to survive only because they benefit the party and/or some top officials. Corporations (say) like Google, if allowed to exist independently of party control, can be serious threats to the political system. Companies like Huawei, Baidu, Tencent, and others are rewarded because the work they do helps strengthen CCP rule and their loyalty; while others are punished for not abiding with CCP (see NBA for a recent example). That's why in HK, China doesn't just want to control the economic system, they have to tightly control its political system as well.
So now, Hong Kong is pretty much dead. After Hong Kong, China will need another hub to connect their business interests with the rest of the world. It could be Singapore, London, San Francisco, Toronto or wherever it is. But the same thing will happen to this new hub - they probably can't beat people up with police brutality, but they will infiltrate your political systems (see Australia and Canada) to make sure they get what they want. -
That's my feeling too. To 5da0 as well, this is not a "being reasonable" post. This is just my feelings. I have been really sad lately to see the troubling news. To me, HK is, like in Lo Ta-yu's song, the Pearl of the Orient. I wish it'll still be that way for years to come. As a mainlander, " the post 97 reality" has always been the reality for us. We haven't found good solutions yet. And at this moment, I don't know what can be good solutions for you. All I can wish you is good luck.
I dunno. Maybe. Maybe not.
The UK had many colonies most of us have moved on to build our own identities and have no feelings (good or bad) toward the UK anymore. Even Australia and Ireland I believe want to become republics.
Hk is special as it was the last British colony on earth. If Britain extends citizenship, good for both places.
Hk has to navigate its post 97 reality itself.
It still is a very decent place to live in despite some issues (mostly cost of housing and depressed wages).
HK bro here. To be very honest, this trend (the so-called post-97 reality) was inevitable. Chinese rule of HK is fundamentally different than British rule - and it's not just because one country is autocratic and the other is democratic.
The British always treated HK as a colony - a place where they can derive as much benefits from as possible - in HK's case it means doing business. The wellbeing of locals wasn't considered a very serious issue until the 1960's when it became apparent that not fixing the social problems (housing, corruption, etc.) would be detrimental to their business interests. That's when they started caring about improving locals' living conditions, and they did very well on that. That is, they were always happy to just leave the locals alone, and only manipulate/interfere as much as necessary to maintain their business interests.
China is a different story. Like Britain, China wants to do business in/through Hong Kong. The difference is, in China, business is intertwined with the political system in ways unimaginable in the west. Companies are allowed to survive only because they benefit the party and/or some top officials. Corporations (say) like Google, if allowed to exist independently of party control, can be serious threats to the political system. Companies like Huawei, Baidu, Tencent, and others are rewarded because the work they do helps strengthen CCP rule and their loyalty; while others are punished for not abiding with CCP (see NBA for a recent example). That's why in HK, China doesn't just want to control the economic system, they have to tightly control its political system as well.
So now, Hong Kong is pretty much dead. After Hong Kong, China will need another hub to connect their business interests with the rest of the world. It could be Singapore, London, San Francisco, Toronto or wherever it is. But the same thing will happen to this new hub - they probably can't beat people up with police brutality, but they will infiltrate your political systems (see Australia and Canada) to make sure they get what they want.Maclehose, the former governor in HK during 1960 reformed HK by tackling real issues. People living and study conditions improved and hence we have Maclehose trail. Not like ccp reaping benefits from HK
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