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• Thread: 585 Goods vs 324 No Goods

1. Economist
   a12f
   

   How much more expensive is a college education nowadays, relative to what you’d expect to make at a first job? Same question for housing.

   I am a parent of millennials. They don't own homes, or have what I had at their age. But, it is different choices. I lived much much poorer than they are willing to and took on considerable debt to acquire stuff and raise them. Price adjusted, they make at least as much as I did. But, they took longer to finish school, don't acquire durable things, live in an expensive apartment, spend lots on expensive things, particularly at bars and eating out. Nothing wrong with that, it is a fine choice. But, the point is, it is a choice.
   

   Dirt cheap. Commuter state schools charge 8-12k in most states with generous fin aid on top of that. Many such schools graduate students with average debt in the 500-2000 range. It's your choice to go private residential.

   Nobody wants to hire someone from a commuter state school

   1 year ago # QUOTE 5 Volod 4 Vlad !

2. Economist
   d6de
   

   How much more expensive is a college education nowadays, relative to what you’d expect to make at a first job? Same question for housing.

   There are plenty of high-paying jobs that do not require a college degree. For those getting a college degree, they should easily and shortly earn more six figures unless they made bad choices (useless major, etc.). There are plenty of colleges where getting an education is cheap (in-state tuition, scholarships when parents have low income, international education, etc.). There are plenty of houses outside of big desirable cities that are very affordable especially with very low interest rates.

   1 year ago # QUOTE 5 Volod 1 Vlad !

3. Economist
   a12f
   

   How much more expensive is a college education nowadays, relative to what you’d expect to make at a first job? Same question for housing.

   There are plenty of high-paying jobs that do not require a college degree. For those getting a college degree, they should easily and shortly earn more six figures unless they made bad choices (useless major, etc.). There are plenty of colleges where getting an education is cheap (in-state tuition, scholarships when parents have low income, international education, etc.). There are plenty of houses outside of big desirable cities that are very affordable especially with very low interest rates.

   Not everyone has the IQ to major in engineering or computer science, genius. And the "plumber who makes 200k" meme is just that- a meme.

   1 year ago # QUOTE 8 Volod 6 Vlad !

4. Economist
   37f2
   

   How much more expensive is a college education nowadays, relative to what you’d expect to make at a first job? Same question for housing.

   I am a parent of millennials. They don't own homes, or have what I had at their age. But, it is different choices. I lived much much poorer than they are willing to and took on considerable debt to acquire stuff and raise them. Price adjusted, they make at least as much as I did. But, they took longer to finish school, don't acquire durable things, live in an expensive apartment, spend lots on expensive things, particularly at bars and eating out. Nothing wrong with that, it is a fine choice. But, the point is, it is a choice.
   

   I said price adjusted. Look at the PCE for housing, not as steep as you probably think.

   Go to a state school and live in lousy housing, eat Ramen and the cheapest foods you can scrounge up, buy cloths at the thrift store, all of which which I did, and college does not cost as much more as you think.

   I still don't spend as freely as my kids. Nowhere near it. Facing the same prices at the same time. I simply would never even go to the pricey places they go to other than to see them.

   I am not neglecting changes in prices, I am saying that price adjusted they don't choose to go without to save. I don't think there is anything wring with that. But it is a choice. I see very few students today, my kids included, who seem to have any comprehension of how extravagantly they live compared to when I was a college student.

   1 year ago # QUOTE 8 Volod 2 Vlad !

5. Economist
   776d
   

   How much more expensive is a college education nowadays, relative to what you’d expect to make at a first job? Same question for housing.

   There are plenty of high-paying jobs that do not require a college degree. For those getting a college degree, they should easily and shortly earn more six figures unless they made bad choices (useless major, etc.). There are plenty of colleges where getting an education is cheap (in-state tuition, scholarships when parents have low income, international education, etc.). There are plenty of houses outside of big desirable cities that are very affordable especially with very low interest rates.

   what besides learn to code?

   1 year ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !

6. Economist
   e323
   

   Median sale of a US house is 260k

   "By comparison, the index value for homes in Idaho as a whole is $348,483, and Boise’s median home value has reached $419,836."

   1 year ago # QUOTE 3 Volod 0 Vlad !

7. Economist
   37f2
   

   "Not everyone has the IQ to major in engineering or computer science, genius. And the "plumber who makes 200k" meme is just that- a meme."

   The plumber, contractor, electrician who make 80-140K in a low cost of living area is very common though. I have many high school friends who have done just that.

   1 year ago # QUOTE 13 Volod 0 Vlad !

8. Economist
   a12f
   

   How much more expensive is a college education nowadays, relative to what you’d expect to make at a first job? Same question for housing.

   I am a parent of millennials. They don't own homes, or have what I had at their age. But, it is different choices. I lived much much poorer than they are willing to and took on considerable debt to acquire stuff and raise them. Price adjusted, they make at least as much as I did. But, they took longer to finish school, don't acquire durable things, live in an expensive apartment, spend lots on expensive things, particularly at bars and eating out. Nothing wrong with that, it is a fine choice. But, the point is, it is a choice.
   

   I said price adjusted. Look at the PCE for housing, not as steep as you probably think.
   Go to a state school and live in lousy housing, eat Ramen and the cheapest foods you can scrounge up, buy cloths at the thrift store, all of which which I did, and college does not cost as much more as you think.
   I still don't spend as freely as my kids. Nowhere near it. Facing the same prices at the same time. I simply would never even go to the pricey places they go to other than to see them.
   I am not neglecting changes in prices, I am saying that price adjusted they don't choose to go without to save. I don't think there is anything wring with that. But it is a choice. I see very few students today, my kids included, who seem to have any comprehension of how extravagantly they live compared to when I was a college student.

   https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DHUTRG3Q086SBEA

   Looks pretty steep to me. Certainly much steeper than it was pre-1980.

   1 year ago # QUOTE 2 Volod 1 Vlad !

9. Economist
   a12f
   

   "Not everyone has the IQ to major in engineering or computer science, genius. And the "plumber who makes 200k" meme is just that- a meme."
   The plumber, contractor, electrician who make 80-140K in a low cost of living area is very common though. I have many high school friends who have done just that.

   And what happens when everyone becomes a plumber, contractor, and electrician? Use your brain

   1 year ago # QUOTE 2 Volod 7 Vlad !

10. Economist
    37f2
    

    Median sale of a US house is 260k

    "By comparison, the index value for homes in Idaho as a whole is $348,483, and Boise’s median home value has reached $419,836."

    Who cares? This is pretty much completely beside the point. You need to look at quality adjusted housing service cost indices. Low interest rates increase prices but make finance easier. Choosing bigger fancier houses does not mean houses cost more, just that people insist on bigger fancier houses.

    1 year ago # QUOTE 2 Volod 0 Vlad !

11. Economist
    ce6d
    

    Millennial with kids and a house here. My peers spend all their disposable income on massages, gym classes & memberships, therapy, and doggie day care. They can’t afford kids.

    1 year ago # QUOTE 11 Volod 2 Vlad !

12. Economist
    e323
    

    Millennial with kids and a house here. My peers spend all their disposable income on massages, gym classes & memberships, therapy, and doggie day care. They can’t afford kids.

    They are acting rationally. Despite what kl0wnz like a8e4 think, the current costs for a similar quality of life with kids as they had are out of reach for most of the younger generations. It is thus rational to shift consumption towards other things that are in reach.

    1 year ago # QUOTE 10 Volod 3 Vlad !

13. Economist
    a12f
    

    This is one of the inevitable consequences of globalizing the workforce, which puts millennials in direct competition against desperate third-worlders across the globe who are willing to work for less. Since this phenomenon benefits the portfolios of boomers, however, they are willing to look the other way.

    Millennial with kids and a house here. My peers spend all their disposable income on massages, gym classes & memberships, therapy, and doggie day care. They can’t afford kids.

    They are acting rationally. Despite what kl0wnz like a8e4 think, the current costs for a similar quality of life with kids as they had are out of reach for most of the younger generations. It is thus rational to shift consumption towards other things that are in reach.

    1 year ago # QUOTE 14 Volod 2 Vlad !

14. Economist
    37f2
    

    Millennial with kids and a house here. My peers spend all their disposable income on massages, gym classes & memberships, therapy, and doggie day care. They can’t afford kids.

    They are acting rationally. Despite what kl0wnz like a8e4 think, the current costs for a similar quality of life with kids as they had are out of reach for most of the younger generations. It is thus rational to shift consumption towards other things that are in reach.

    I never said they are not acting rationally. I said they could make different choices and don't. And I was talking about millennials with decent jobs. The job market is indeed harder for many of them. But, those that price adjusted make more than me and don't have kids and houses, and there are lots of those, are simply making different choices.

    1 year ago # QUOTE 1 Volod 4 Vlad !

15. Economist
    d6de
    

    The plumber, contractor, electrician who make 80-140K in a low cost of living area is very common though. I have many high school friends who have done just that.

    And what happens when everyone becomes a plumber, contractor, and electrician? Use your brain

    These professions (and many others) have provided a reliable good income for decades, and yet not everyone became a plumber, contractor, and electrician. You can now go back to Reddit.

    1 year ago # QUOTE 5 Volod 2 Vlad !

16. Economist
    37f2
    

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DHUTRG3Q086SBEA
    Looks pretty steep to me. Certainly much steeper than it was pre-1980.

    Look at the rent index, which prices only service costs, compared to the overall PCE. Some increase, not a lot:
    https://www.econjobrumors.com/topic/as-a-millennial-i-see-little-hope-of-having-a-family-and-owning-a-home/page/2?replies=34#post_content

    1 year ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !

17. Economist
    37f2
    

    The plumber, contractor, electrician who make 80-140K in a low cost of living area is very common though. I have many high school friends who have done just that.

    And what happens when everyone becomes a plumber, contractor, and electrician? Use your brain
    These professions (and many others) have provided a reliable good income for decades, and yet not everyone became a plumber, contractor, and electrician. You can now go back to Reddit.

    Who said everyone would do that? Certainly not me. So I am not sure who you are talking at.

    1 year ago # QUOTE 1 Volod 1 Vlad !

18. Economist
    776d
    

    I never said they are not acting rationally. I said they could make different choices and don't. And I was talking about millennials with decent jobs. The job market is indeed harder for many of them. But, those that price adjusted make more than me and don't have kids and houses, and there are lots of those, are simply making different choices.

    It’s not just financial barriers preventing family formation, there are cultural barriers as well. I know several well-off techbros who could afford a family but are unable to find dates.

    1 year ago # QUOTE 6 Volod 0 Vlad !

19. Economist
    a12f
    

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DHUTRG3Q086SBEA
    Looks pretty steep to me. Certainly much steeper than it was pre-1980.

    Look at the rent index, which prices only service costs, compared to the overall PCE. Some increase, not a lot:
    https://www.econjobrumors.com/topic/as-a-millennial-i-see-little-hope-of-having-a-family-and-owning-a-home/page/2?replies=34#post_content

    These numbers mean little unless you compare them to the typical salary a millennial can expect from an average job. Have these salaries kept pace with the rent index? No, because millennials have to compete with a global workforce which drives salaries down.

    1 year ago # QUOTE 2 Volod 1 Vlad !

20. Economist
    e893
    

    Married millenials nowadays are typically a two incomes household. This is major difference compared to previous generations. Even if at least one of the spouses only makes 70-80k (quite easy to achieve, e.g. as policeman or nurse), the combined household income is at least 150k, which is more than enough to comfortably raise a family in most places (with the exception of a few expensive cities).

    1 year ago # QUOTE 5 Volod 3 Vlad !

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