It's OK OP. I'm a third year AP with already 5 pubs. I have two papers under review -- provided that one hits in the next 3 years, I'll get tenure, even if I produce nothing else in that time. But, b/c of this, I have nothing to work hard for. I wish I was in your shoes. Only if I was pushed would I know what I can accomplish.
Bros & broette, an excellent example of the "humblebrag"
This is correct. If they want you around, they'll find a way. This is why tenure committees like ambiguity in the standards.
The idea of denying someone tenure because they coauthor with senior people is laughable. The truth is, if the department wants to tenure you, they will find an argument for your case. If they don't want to tenure you, then you are f**ked no matter what.
- An Old timer
The idea of denying someone tenure because they coauthor with senior people is laughable. The truth is, if the department wants to tenure you, they will find an argument for your case. If they don't want to tenure you, then you are f**ked no matter what.
- An Old timer
I'm still an AP, but I was taught something very similar by my advisers. Basically, don't heed idiosyncratic advice too much.
Maybe your current school doesn't value papers coauthored with senior people. But some other school out there will value such papers.
Sometimes it's hard to implement advice. Sometimes you get conflicting advice from different faculty members. Things didn't work out for me. It would be nice if you would still be nice to me and try to help me out while I am still around.
The first year you arrived, I reached out to you, took you for lunch, invited over for dinner. I always asked you how your papers were going? I have you unsolicited advice on what outlets you might have sent them. Warned you about journals with long delays, against only working with senior people or former advisors. Yet you never listened, so i gave up. Our vote was unanimous against your tenure case, and I slept well that night knowing that I did my best earlier on to point you in the right direction. You are a decent human being, but publications and professionalism is what matters for tenure. Good luck with your life.
I am not getting tenure, and my colleagues and I know it, but I still have one year on my tenure clock which I need to work on my pubs before I go on the market again. I am depressed and my colleagues treat me like I have a contagious disease. Be nice to me.
Well, if you want challenge, there is always MIT/Harvard there. You can publish a few more and move to one of these two (with the assumption that your email's tone reflects your true ability).
It's OK OP. I'm a third year AP with already 5 pubs. I have two papers under review -- provided that one hits in the next 3 years, I'll get tenure, even if I produce nothing else in that time. But, b/c of this, I have nothing to work hard for. I wish I was in your shoes. Only if I was pushed would I know what I can accomplish.
Anticipated tenure denials are depressing all around.
From the outside, it sucks to watch a junior colleague behave in a delusion manner (behaving as if they have a shot when a monkey throwing darts could make the call based on the CV) and not take appropriate actions to protect themselves and ensure their future academic career. Far too many juniors simply let themselves careen toward the abyss rather than proactively seek a reboot and become more strategic in their publication / self promotion strategies. This ends in either an exit from academia or a drop far more severe than what otherwise would have happened. Rather than fight they just seem to give up and pray, and I don't know why. The investment in academia is too big, and the transition costs are too large, to just throw it all away like that.
take appropriate actions to protect themselves and ensure their future academic career. Far too many juniors simply let themselves careen toward the abyss rather than proactively seek a reboot and become more strategic in their publication / self promotion strategies.
What do you mean, exactly?
Far too many juniors simply let themselves careen toward the abyss rather than proactively seek a reboot and become more strategic in their publication / self promotion strategies.
this is aggravated by the behavior described above by the OP. once denial seems likely, people shun and blame rather than support.
Because of the recession, there are well published lecturers these days. Presumably they will go back on the market at some point soon. We are not giving out tenure like it's the oprah show these days for that reason. If people with 4-4 loads can publish, there really are no excuses for our 2-1 aps.
I am not delusional, but what do you want me to do? I don't know what to do.
Anticipated tenure denials are depressing all around.
From the outside, it sucks to watch a junior colleague behave in a delusion manner (behaving as if they have a shot when a monkey throwing darts could make the call based on the CV) and not take appropriate actions to protect themselves and ensure their future academic career. Far too many juniors simply let themselves careen toward the abyss rather than proactively seek a reboot and become more strategic in their publication / self promotion strategies. This ends in either an exit from academia or a drop far more severe than what otherwise would have happened. Rather than fight they just seem to give up and pray, and I don't know why. The investment in academia is too big, and the transition costs are too large, to just throw it all away like that.
I am not delusional, but what do you want me to do? I don't know what to do.
Anticipated tenure denials are depressing all around.
From the outside, it sucks to watch a junior colleague behave in a delusion manner (behaving as if they have a shot when a monkey throwing darts could make the call based on the CV) and not take appropriate actions to protect themselves and ensure their future academic career. Far too many juniors simply let themselves careen toward the abyss rather than proactively seek a reboot and become more strategic in their publication / self promotion strategies. This ends in either an exit from academia or a drop far more severe than what otherwise would have happened. Rather than fight they just seem to give up and pray, and I don't know why. The investment in academia is too big, and the transition costs are too large, to just throw it all away like that.
Not bc93, but I interpret "become more strategic in their publication / self promotion strategies" to mean you should consider submitting to lower-ranked journals. At the very least more journals than just the top 3 plus name your favorite journal outside the top 3.
I am not delusional, but what do you want me to do? I don't know what to do.
My two cents: Use your industry contacts or at least apply to industry asap. If you would like to return to academia, continue publishing while you are at your new job. Once you have a healthy number of publications (published; accepted; R&R), apply for senior AP positions.
It may also be that you might like the monetary incentives more and stay in industry.
I am not getting tenure, and my colleagues and I know it, but I still have one year on my tenure clock which I need to work on my pubs before I go on the market again. I am depressed and my colleagues treat me like I have a contagious disease. Be nice to me.
OP - What is the weakness of your tenure case? What are your strengths? What is a weakness at one school (too few publications for an R1) won't be at another (eg, an LAC looking for an AP). And what is overlooked at one school (eg, great teaching evals), will be an asset at another.
While I know it is incredibly heart breaking to not get tenure, have you been able to reflect on what your strengths are? If you have good teaching evals and an ok publication history, why not try to jump to an R2 or an LAC? Find some that has something exciting that catches your eye (great location, awesome interdisciplinary MA program, etc) and spend the next year fine tuning your CV for those schools. For the LAC example, get involved with undergraduate student research.
Basically, if a new R1 tenure track position is out of reach, you might have better luck being more specific/targeted with your job applications rather than just blindly telling yourself to "work on my pubs before I go on the market again."
I am not getting tenure, and my colleagues and I know it, but I still have one year on my tenure clock which I need to work on my pubs before I go on the market again. I am depressed and my colleagues treat me like I have a contagious disease. Be nice to me.
wustl grad detected
Anticipated tenure denials are depressing all around.
From the outside, it sucks to watch a junior colleague behave in a delusion manner (behaving as if they have a shot when a monkey throwing darts could make the call based on the CV) and not take appropriate actions to protect themselves and ensure their future academic career. Far too many juniors simply let themselves careen toward the abyss rather than proactively seek a reboot and become more strategic in their publication / self promotion strategies. This ends in either an exit from academia or a drop far more severe than what otherwise would have happened. Rather than fight they just seem to give up and pray, and I don't know why. The investment in academia is too big, and the transition costs are too large, to just throw it all away like that.
Sounds good but this is still super cryptic