lol, 60k per year in fees at Stanford or best bread in the world in Germany.
You choose.
-German A (to the) P
Elite universities in Europe:
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lol, 60k per year in fees at Stanford or best bread in the world in Germany.
You choose.
-German A (to the) PWhile, it may be easy for you to ridicule that today you will be in a different state of mind when your daughter will be applying for college in the US. You will offer 80K for Smith College over best bread in Germany.
There are hundreds of people from Europe who hold a PhD from US schools, undergraduate degrees from Europe, and who work in the US. Do you know any who actually sent kids to school in Europe? Note that many of those people actually have spouses from the same country so there is no issue when it comes to language. For now just enjoy your bread, which is great.
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Europe vs US education. Quite hard to compare. Education in Europe is knowledge acquisition centered, while in the US it is all about networking and 'campus experience'. Knowledge-wise non-American students from top worlds schools easily outperform their American counterparts especially at undergrad level. However, networks are essential for a good career, so getting an American education could perfectly make sense especially if you want to stay in the US. In fact, American postgraduate education is very valued in Europe too (could be a good idea to do your undergrad in Europe, PhD or a postdoc in the US and then go back).
In STEM fields BS and MS degrees from top non-US schools are extremely competitive: you will probably have a huge edge over your American counterparts. European PhD degrees from top schools are still quite competitive - you can easily find a postdoc at top US-schools. But at the professor's level networks become essential, so if you aim at academia in the US, at some point it helps to go through the American education system. It could be different in other fields.Interesting. How would you describe US education at BSc and MSc level?
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Why the random NW hate? Plenty of Europeans studying at NW, and the name has currency in academia.
Another Eurobro here.
I don't think he was hating on NW. It was an example. I my country 99% of the population probably never heard of it. Same for other relatively prestigious places in the US sometimes named here like Dartmouth or Urbana-Champaign (spelling?) or whatever.
Maybe some people heard about Brown a couple of times in their life, one of which was a joke in the Simpsons when Lisa was desperate at the idea of going there instead of Harvard or something like that.
The point probably is that, after the very top (Harvard and a handful of others in the US, Oxbridge and -for econ- maybe the LSE) the market is very localized.
In Europe we are not desperate to be admitted to some US or UK college like people from the 3rd world. Our employers never heard of most foreign Universities except the very top.
I may be wrong but, if you want to get a job back home, generally speaking a foreign degree like that is actually a BAD decision. Not just not worth it, actually a bad choice. Economists in EJMR are an extremely biased sample in this respect.
Then, after your bachelor, when you know what you are doing, a master abroad may be a different story.
And the reverse is probably true. If you plan to get a job in the US, a bachelor from Europe may be problematic, eve if the quality if instruction has nothing to envy to the US.Thank you for helping me. I have no issues with Northwestern.
You are absolutely right. If you want a job in your country then staying in your country is a good idea. Locally local schools have an edge over any place. If you have an AB from Princenton you will be viewed as out of place in Europe and you will not be that attractive - for many reasons. To the point. We were talking about elite schools and none of those local schools can be viewed as elite even when they provide great education and make you employable locally. Having an AB from Princeton is a different story especially in the longer perspective.
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I know a lot of people (profile you have described) who sent their kids to Europe or even temporarily moved with the whole family back to Europe so that their kids get a European education. Of course more people chose to send their kids where they live, so naturally if you live in the US you'd rather send your kids to a US-based school. That (even if it were true for all) wouldn't prove your point anyway.
To my kids I would probably advise to do undergrad and masters in a top European school in one of the capitals and go to the US for PhD (that is, the same way I did it) if they wanted an academic career.
lol, 60k per year in fees at Stanford or best bread in the world in Germany.
You choose.
-German A (to the) PWhile, it may be easy for you to ridicule that today you will be in a different state of mind when your daughter will be applying for college in the US. You will offer 80K for Smith College over best bread in Germany.
There are hundreds of people from Europe who hold a PhD from US schools, undergraduate degrees from Europe, and who work in the US. Do you know any who actually sent kids to school in Europe? Note that many of those people actually have spouses from the same country so there is no issue when it comes to language. For now just enjoy your bread, which is great. -
Well, I pretty much did describe at those levels. American universities are all about networks which they cultivate, cherish and exploit. The value of doing undergrad at Harvard is exactly that - you will be part of those networks and this will help you advance in your careers. American Universities know how to help students harvest the power of those networks, the European Universities - not so much (European B-Schools do that to some extent though).
My American friends also value immensely their 'campus experience'. Personally I did not find it that appealing. I guess we all cherish the time we are young and becoming independent from our parents. Personally I would say doing undergrad at a top university in Paris, Rome, Moscow or any other European capital is infinitely more fun than being stuck in some college town like Cambridge, Princeton, Urbana-Champaign and the like.
In my personal experience teaching in the US (STEM), BS degree there is more like a high school diploma in my country of origin in terms of content and in Masters program the American students where catching up what I did in Bachelor's program in my home country. This handicap is also reflected in completely different structure of the PhD programs: a PhD in Europe is typically much shorter than in the US and you have almost no coursework - it is all about research. The American PhD is more like the European Masters + PhD: you have to catch up on coursework and do research. Needless to say, research can be of highest quality!
I am not sure if this can be extrapolated to all Business disciplines.
Europe vs US education. Quite hard to compare. Education in Europe is knowledge acquisition centered, while in the US it is all about networking and 'campus experience'. Knowledge-wise non-American students from top worlds schools easily outperform their American counterparts especially at undergrad level. However, networks are essential for a good career, so getting an American education could perfectly make sense especially if you want to stay in the US. In fact, American postgraduate education is very valued in Europe too (could be a good idea to do your undergrad in Europe, PhD or a postdoc in the US and then go back).
In STEM fields BS and MS degrees from top non-US schools are extremely competitive: you will probably have a huge edge over your American counterparts. European PhD degrees from top schools are still quite competitive - you can easily find a postdoc at top US-schools. But at the professor's level networks become essential, so if you aim at academia in the US, at some point it helps to go through the American education system. It could be different in other fields.Interesting. How would you describe US education at BSc and MSc level?
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Moving to Europe temporarily to get a flavor is a great idea even for real Americans. It is always a great experience to even move from the Czech Republic to Germany for a year or two. When the time comes and you are choosing between UCLA and University of Vienna, what will your kids do?
I know that that you would only advise, but it will be your kid. As I said earlier your kid will be in a good place in Europe. She will have friends who will be applying to the US. Will you advise your daughter to stay "behind?"
I know a lot of people (profile you have described) who sent their kids to Europe or even temporarily moved with the whole family back to Europe so that their kids get a European education. Of course more people chose to send their kids where they live, so naturally if you live in the US you'd rather send your kids to a US-based school. That (even if it were true for all) wouldn't prove your point anyway.
To my kids I would probably advise to do undergrad and masters in a top European school in one of the capitals and go to the US for PhD (that is, the same way I did it) if they wanted an academic career.lol, 60k per year in fees at Stanford or best bread in the world in Germany.
You choose.
-German A (to the) PWhile, it may be easy for you to ridicule that today you will be in a different state of mind when your daughter will be applying for college in the US. You will offer 80K for Smith College over best bread in Germany.
There are hundreds of people from Europe who hold a PhD from US schools, undergraduate degrees from Europe, and who work in the US. Do you know any who actually sent kids to school in Europe? Note that many of those people actually have spouses from the same country so there is no issue when it comes to language. For now just enjoy your bread, which is great.
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That is the key difference between us: for me staying in Europe is not 'falling behind'. Definitely not at the undergraduate level. I will try to convey to my kids that doing what you want and love is the priority rather than comparing yourself to others (that is trying to live somebody elses life)
If my kid continues to be fond of Mathematics as he is at the moment I will no doubt advise him to pick ENS Ulm vs. UCLA for undergrad.
Moving to Europe temporarily to get a flavor is a great idea even for real Americans. It is always a great experience to even move from the Czech Republic to Germany for a year or two. When the time comes and you are choosing between UCLA and University of Vienna, what will your kids do?
I know that that you would only advise, but it will be your kid. As I said earlier your kid will be in a good place in Europe. She will have friends who will be applying to the US. Will you advise your daughter to stay "behind?"I know a lot of people (profile you have described) who sent their kids to Europe or even temporarily moved with the whole family back to Europe so that their kids get a European education. Of course more people chose to send their kids where they live, so naturally if you live in the US you'd rather send your kids to a US-based school. That (even if it were true for all) wouldn't prove your point anyway.
To my kids I would probably advise to do undergrad and masters in a top European school in one of the capitals and go to the US for PhD (that is, the same way I did it) if they wanted an academic career.lol, 60k per year in fees at Stanford or best bread in the world in Germany.
You choose.
-German A (to the) PWhile, it may be easy for you to ridicule that today you will be in a different state of mind when your daughter will be applying for college in the US. You will offer 80K for Smith College over best bread in Germany.
There are hundreds of people from Europe who hold a PhD from US schools, undergraduate degrees from Europe, and who work in the US. Do you know any who actually sent kids to school in Europe? Note that many of those people actually have spouses from the same country so there is no issue when it comes to language. For now just enjoy your bread, which is great.
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True story: when I worked at a semi prestigious think thank in western Europe a guy applied with a degree from brown. My boss, a semi star in the country,
told us about it as an example of someone who looked very good but had a degree from and unknown university so "difficult to assess" -
Let me reiterate about the localization of the job market. I'm the last person who should advise someone else on their career, but allow me to give my 2 euro cents.
If your son or daughter grew up in the US and is almost sure he/she will want to stay there, probably a college in the US makes sense, even if -as stated by another poster above- it's little more than a high-school.
If you son or daughter is orientated toward staying in Europe (e.g. you're from country X, moved to the US when he/she was was a teen, and wants to go back for good) probably a bachelor in country X is a good idea. Ideally even in the city or region where he/she wants to stay (for the local network and internships) if not in one of the best universities of country X.
Then, if the kid changes his/her mind, or realizes that in his/her particular field of interests an expensive master in a particular country is worth it, it can be done.
Also consider that a US bachelor allows you to choose your major after a couple of years if I'm not mistaken, while in Europe you need to choose your filed while enrolling. And consider that after a Euro Bachelor, a Master is almost necessary (because often the new 3 years degrees aren't seen as equivalent to the old degrees).
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That is the key difference between us: for me staying in Europe is not 'falling behind'. Definitely not at the undergraduate level. I will try to convey to my kids that doing what you want and love is the priority rather than comparing yourself to others (that is trying to live somebody elses life)
If my kid continues to be fond of Mathematics as he is at the moment I will no doubt advise him to pick ENS Ulm vs. UCLA for undergrad.Is there a place in the US that you would advise your kid to take over ENS?
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True story: when I worked at a semi prestigious think thank in western Europe a guy applied with a degree from brown. My boss, a semi star in the country,
told us about it as an example of someone who looked very good but had a degree from and unknown university so "difficult to assess"Very common. Also, many leaders in Europe "think" that Harvard is in NYC or Chicago. Of course even if they know Harvard in the first place.
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Missing UCL, EUI, and Tinbergen (technically not a school i know but for econ grad programmes it counts) from the list. Also, as someone who has lived in the some of the ‘good to live’ bits of the US (such as New York) and continental Europe the quality of life in the US is a league below even the poorer European countries (think living in Budapest for example). Goods are more expensive for much lower quality (especially food), public services are much worse, you have to travel by car everywhere, much less culture and history, and much less of a sense of community. The problem with going to the US is you have to live in the US...
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Well, I pretty much did describe at those levels. American universities are all about networks which they cultivate, cherish and exploit. The value of doing undergrad at Harvard is exactly that - you will be part of those networks and this will help you advance in your careers. American Universities know how to help students harvest the power of those networks, the European Universities - not so much (European B-Schools do that to some extent though).
My American friends also value immensely their 'campus experience'. Personally I did not find it that appealing. I guess we all cherish the time we are young and becoming independent from our parents. Personally I would say doing undergrad at a top university in Paris, Rome, Moscow or any other European capital is infinitely more fun than being stuck in some college town like Cambridge, Princeton, Urbana-Champaign and the like.
In my personal experience teaching in the US (STEM), BS degree there is more like a high school diploma in my country of origin in terms of content and in Masters program the American students where catching up what I did in Bachelor's program in my home country. This handicap is also reflected in completely different structure of the PhD programs: a PhD in Europe is typically much shorter than in the US and you have almost no coursework - it is all about research. The American PhD is more like the European Masters + PhD: you have to catch up on coursework and do research. Needless to say, research can be of highest quality!
I am not sure if this can be extrapolated to all Business disciplines.Europe vs US education. Quite hard to compare. Education in Europe is knowledge acquisition centered, while in the US it is all about networking and 'campus experience'. Knowledge-wise non-American students from top worlds schools easily outperform their American counterparts especially at undergrad level. However, networks are essential for a good career, so getting an American education could perfectly make sense especially if you want to stay in the US. In fact, American postgraduate education is very valued in Europe too (could be a good idea to do your undergrad in Europe, PhD or a postdoc in the US and then go back).
In STEM fields BS and MS degrees from top non-US schools are extremely competitive: you will probably have a huge edge over your American counterparts. European PhD degrees from top schools are still quite competitive - you can easily find a postdoc at top US-schools. But at the professor's level networks become essential, so if you aim at academia in the US, at some point it helps to go through the American education system. It could be different in other fields.Interesting. How would you describe US education at BSc and MSc level?
I will admit I know very little about US education, but I noticed people students from US (Yale, Berkeley, UCLA, UC Davis) came to my university in Europe to do a MSc, or exchange students they seemed less trained particularly in methodology.