Another thing; according to some of my classmates that had their exchange semesters in the US, it was easier to get high grades there. A German guy told me he got all A+ during his US exchange, but his home university in Germany wouldn't accept the grades/credits (not sure about their motivation).
Elite universities in Europe:
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All these whining about where undergrad education is better is just drivel. Best research is done by the best people. You need to pay more to hire the best. This may not be true at individual level but is certainly true at the population level. I have no experience of European education at any level, but I can certainly judge the average quality of research. It's laughable. Ergo, education (the way I see it), the end result of it, is nowhere comparable between the US and Europe. Get rich, hire the best, the rest will follow.
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All these whining about where undergrad education is better is just drivel. Best research is done by the best people. You need to pay more to hire the best. This may not be true at individual level but is certainly true at the population level. I have no experience of European education at any level, but I can certainly judge the average quality of research. It's laughable. Ergo, education (the way I see it), the end result of it, is nowhere comparable between the US and Europe. Get rich, hire the best, the rest will follow.
Most people do not get educated in order to become researchers.
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Likewise most people don’t get a degree to become rich.
All these whining about where undergrad education is better is just drivel. Best research is done by the best people. You need to pay more to hire the best. This may not be true at individual level but is certainly true at the population level. I have no experience of European education at any level, but I can certainly judge the average quality of research. It's laughable. Ergo, education (the way I see it), the end result of it, is nowhere comparable between the US and Europe. Get rich, hire the best, the rest will follow.
Most people do not get educated in order to become researchers.
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This is such nonsense. It’s obvious you are from the US. You are laughable indeed. It wouldn be a waste of time to reason with you.
All these whining about where undergrad education is better is just drivel. Best research is done by the best people. You need to pay more to hire the best. This may not be true at individual level but is certainly true at the population level. I have no experience of European education at any level, but I can certainly judge the average quality of research. It's laughable. Ergo, education (the way I see it), the end result of it, is nowhere comparable between the US and Europe. Get rich, hire the best, the rest will follow.
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This is such nonsense. It’s obvious you are from the US. You are laughable indeed. It wouldn be a waste of time to reason with you.
All these whining about where undergrad education is better is just drivel. Best research is done by the best people. You need to pay more to hire the best. This may not be true at individual level but is certainly true at the population level. I have no experience of European education at any level, but I can certainly judge the average quality of research. It's laughable. Ergo, education (the way I see it), the end result of it, is nowhere comparable between the US and Europe. Get rich, hire the best, the rest will follow.
Sure, I am from the US. I am also an immigrant. And a researcher at a top school. I could have gone anywhere but chose US over Europe because of better colleagues and more money and relative openness to outsiders in this country. Many of my colleagues, in turn, chose the US for similar reasons, immigrants or not. The research we generate raises the school's profile/ARWU ranking and parents all over the world pay top $$ to send their kids here. And the cycle perpetuates. You need not argue with it, these are just plain facts.
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Where to start...
This is such nonsense. It’s obvious you are from the US. You are laughable indeed. It wouldn be a waste of time to reason with you.
All these whining about where undergrad education is better is just drivel. Best research is done by the best people. You need to pay more to hire the best. This may not be true at individual level but is certainly true at the population level. I have no experience of European education at any level, but I can certainly judge the average quality of research. It's laughable. Ergo, education (the way I see it), the end result of it, is nowhere comparable between the US and Europe. Get rich, hire the best, the rest will follow.
Sure, I am from the US. I am also an immigrant. And a researcher at a top school. I could have gone anywhere but chose US over Europe because of better colleagues and more money and relative openness to outsiders in this country. Many of my colleagues, in turn, chose the US for similar reasons, immigrants or not. The research we generate raises the school's profile/ARWU ranking and parents all over the world pay top $$ to send their kids here. And the cycle perpetuates. You need not argue with it, these are just plain facts.
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Where to start...
This is such nonsense. It’s obvious you are from the US. You are laughable indeed. It wouldn be a waste of time to reason with you.
All these whining about where undergrad education is better is just drivel. Best research is done by the best people. You need to pay more to hire the best. This may not be true at individual level but is certainly true at the population level. I have no experience of European education at any level, but I can certainly judge the average quality of research. It's laughable. Ergo, education (the way I see it), the end result of it, is nowhere comparable between the US and Europe. Get rich, hire the best, the rest will follow.
Sure, I am from the US. I am also an immigrant. And a researcher at a top school. I could have gone anywhere but chose US over Europe because of better colleagues and more money and relative openness to outsiders in this country. Many of my colleagues, in turn, chose the US for similar reasons, immigrants or not. The research we generate raises the school's profile/ARWU ranking and parents all over the world pay top $$ to send their kids here. And the cycle perpetuates. You need not argue with it, these are just plain facts.
Try starting at waxing eloquent on the virtues of the local bakery? ;)
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This is such nonsense. It’s obvious you are from the US. You are laughable indeed. It wouldn be a waste of time to reason with you.
All these whining about where undergrad education is better is just drivel. Best research is done by the best people. You need to pay more to hire the best. This may not be true at individual level but is certainly true at the population level. I have no experience of European education at any level, but I can certainly judge the average quality of research. It's laughable. Ergo, education (the way I see it), the end result of it, is nowhere comparable between the US and Europe. Get rich, hire the best, the rest will follow.
Sure, I am from the US. I am also an immigrant. And a researcher at a top school. I could have gone anywhere but chose US over Europe because of better colleagues and more money and relative openness to outsiders in this country. Many of my colleagues, in turn, chose the US for similar reasons, immigrants or not. The research we generate raises the school's profile/ARWU ranking and parents all over the world pay top $$ to send their kids here. And the cycle perpetuates. You need not argue with it, these are just plain facts.
So you are a researcher at a top school but can not have a nuanced discussion about education quality?
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The patronizing, condescending arrogance among eurobros is so tiresome, and the idea that American unis are subpar is flatly incorrect and leans on tired stereotypes. The top 20 US universities are roughly coterminous with the top 20 unis in the world. Can't say that about another country. And the $$$ at the top American unis is undeniable.
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If you are really good, European universities are willing to pay for you. What is right is that European universities cannot afford to pay the same salary as US schools for the option that an assistant professor maybe eventually pans out.
The patronizing, condescending arrogance among eurobros is so tiresome, and the idea that American unis are subpar is flatly incorrect and leans on tired stereotypes. The top 20 US universities are roughly coterminous with the top 20 unis in the world. Can't say that about another country. And the $$$ at the top American unis is undeniable.
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This is such nonsense. It’s obvious you are from the US. You are laughable indeed. It wouldn be a waste of time to reason with you.
All these whining about where undergrad education is better is just drivel. Best research is done by the best people. You need to pay more to hire the best. This may not be true at individual level but is certainly true at the population level. I have no experience of European education at any level, but I can certainly judge the average quality of research. It's laughable. Ergo, education (the way I see it), the end result of it, is nowhere comparable between the US and Europe. Get rich, hire the best, the rest will follow.
Sure, I am from the US. I am also an immigrant. And a researcher at a top school. I could have gone anywhere but chose US over Europe because of better colleagues and more money and relative openness to outsiders in this country. Many of my colleagues, in turn, chose the US for similar reasons, immigrants or not. The research we generate raises the school's profile/ARWU ranking and parents all over the world pay top $$ to send their kids here. And the cycle perpetuates. You need not argue with it, these are just plain facts.
So you are a researcher at a top school but can not have a nuanced discussion about education quality?
I think I gave several reasons. The other person said it would be a waste of time to reason with me. Are you sure I am the one here with lack of nuance?
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I think I gave several reasons. The other person said it would be a waste of time to reason with me. Are you sure I am the one here with lack of nuance?
Sorry about that other guy. I think there is no agreement about higher pays in US attracting better researchers. However, believe it doesn't necessarily translates into better education for the majority of students, but I am open to being challenged about my beliefs. I have a similar perception as the guy who claimed EU education is more about knowledge acquisition, but I could of course be wrong.
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This is really just laughably incorrect. The top US schools attract not just the best and brightest in America (population 360 million), they also attract talent from around the world - certainly not comparable to a typical European undergrad uni, which is much more localized. Unless you're really trying to claim that Americans are on average less intelligent, the average student at an elite American uni is just as accomplished and intelligent if not moreso (and receives a better education) than students at the vast majority of European unis.
I think I gave several reasons. The other person said it would be a waste of time to reason with me. Are you sure I am the one here with lack of nuance?
Sorry about that other guy. I think there is no agreement about higher pays in US attracting better researchers. However, believe it doesn't necessarily translates into better education for the majority of students, but I am open to being challenged about my beliefs. I have a similar perception as the guy who claimed EU education is more about knowledge acquisition, but I could of course be wrong.
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This is really just laughably incorrect. The top US schools attract not just the best and brightest in America (population 360 million), they also attract talent from around the world - certainly not comparable to a typical European undergrad uni, which is much more localized. Unless you're really trying to claim that Americans are on average less intelligent, the average student at an elite American uni is just as accomplished and intelligent if not moreso (and receives a better education) than students at the vast majority of European unis.
I think I gave several reasons. The other person said it would be a waste of time to reason with me. Are you sure I am the one here with lack of nuance?
Sorry about that other guy. I think there is no agreement about higher pays in US attracting better researchers. However, believe it doesn't necessarily translates into better education for the majority of students, but I am open to being challenged about my beliefs. I have a similar perception as the guy who claimed EU education is more about knowledge acquisition, but I could of course be wrong.
I mistyped the first part, it's supposed to say 'disagreement'.
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Look I agree, top US schools attract more top talent and produce better researchers, but I am still not convinced the education itself is better. If I had studied in US instead of Europe, how would my education have been better?
You are asking a sort of subjective, nebulous, non-falsifiable question. I know how to quantify research output. Can you pick a similar metric for "education?" Then we can talk.
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I'm addressing the highfalutin eurobros in this thread claiming European education is superior to US and characterizing it as nothing more than dressed-up networking and a "campus experience" filled with students who are oh-so-less-knowledgeable than the high and mighty Europeans. People in this thread saying a degree from Brown or Northwestern is virtually useless? Ha!
Look at results and output and wages. And follow the footsteps. US undergrad continues to be highly sought after because America continues to be the most desirable job market, especially for STEM. And yes, networking factors into that. And "knowledge"? You're really gonna sit there and try to convince me I can learn better computer science at Heidelberg U than, oh, IDK, any of the top 40 US universities?
I am not claiming America is superior in every aspect. It's clear the country has a lot of problems to work on. But saying that European education is sooo much better is not true and frankly will get you laughed out the door in most other parts of the world.
Look I agree, top US schools attract more top talent and produce better researchers, but I am still not convinced the education itself is better. If I had studied in US instead of Europe, how would my education have been better?
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Look I agree, top US schools attract more top talent and produce better researchers, but I am still not convinced the education itself is better. If I had studied in US instead of Europe, how would my education have been better?
You are asking a sort of subjective, nebulous, non-falsifiable question. I know how to quantify research output. Can you pick a similar metric for "education?" Then we can talk.
I agree it is subjective, but it does not need to be falsifiable for someone to voice their opinion.
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Listing HEC and not X reveals you are clueless.
that's true and not distinguishing between ens ulm, cachan (and now rennes), and lyon prove how uninformed OP is
for French grand écoles one would also need to distinguish the classe prépa streamENS Cachan is still very good, maybe not as good as Ulm but definitely above Warsaw and Warwick and stuff
ENS Ulm and X definitely on the top of the list