Georgia Michailidou's (NYU-AD) allegation against Daniel Houser of GMU:

3 months - 357 posts - Latest - RSS
Thread: 1155 Goods vs 328 No Goods

Economics Job Market Rumors » Economics » Economics Discussion

Georgia Michailidou's (NYU-AD) allegation against Daniel Houser of GMU:

Economist
33b9

Haven't you been paying attention. There is one specific allegation of him groping (a very specific act) a PhD student, GM, at a known workshop in San Diego in 2015, where GM told many others when it happened. So there are people that can corroborate the date and location. Can't be more clear than that. I'm sure that the ESA and AEA have more examples but obviously they are not going to announce them here.

What the exact punishment is depends on the strength of evidence on what exactly counts as assault. I think the proper role of ESA and AEA should be to establish guidelines for punishments for specific offenses and degrees of evidence...especially because of how polarized the conversation is.

GOssip about allegedly bad behavior is fine and normal. It's actually a good check against creepy behaviour, so long as punishments are not dolled out on that basis. In many cases "dont work with that creep" is closer to the right degree of punishment to "terminate and excommunicate".

2 months ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 1 Vlad !
Economist
72ca

https://twitter.com/EconGeorgia/status/1583293850583695360

Has it really only been a month since this happened? Everyone has moved on and housers life has been completely shattered.

2 months ago # QUOTE 6 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
dada

Everyone wants all these guys to Sue but it’s a huge ordeal. It’s expensive, takes up your life, and can cause its own reputation costs.

But here’s the problem. Jen is a leopard and her spots won’t change. She’s a shark who got a taste of blood. She’s a Rottweiler witn a two ton jaw pressure who won’t let go. She’s everyone of those metaphors and more.

Best thing everyone can do is refuse to play by the collective shame playbook. You see Dan at a conference, you go up to him, ask him how he is, buy him dinner. Tell him you’re sorry this is going on. You see RANDY, you do it. You see anyone she named, and you compensate by being even more friendly. These guys have experienced ptsd level trauma and all the woke enablers are gas lighting them saying it’s nothing bc they have tenure. No. Go ask them how they are. You could even email Dypvig I bet and he’d reply. They’re pariahs now. No one has any info. You think john list has any info when he quote tweeted on Twitter shaming houser? A professional colleague of 30 years? Of course not. Why did he insert himself? Was it bc he knew things? No bc silence is viewed as complicit in supporting sexual assault and he wants to signal he’s an ally. It’s got nothing to do with Dan. Plus maybe he dislikes Dan. But no way he has any info bc his quote tweet literally said he learned AT DINNER (ie gossip).

A lot of this would’ve been clear to everyone ten years ago. It isn’t now. Best anyone can do is refuse to live in the matrix and just be decent. Of course if you learn from a student or colleague that they are experiencing assault, do something. Don’t do this garbage Jen is doing but there are established socially low cost ways to address this thay don’t have such massive Type 2 errors.

2 months ago # QUOTE 11 Volod 1 Vlad !
Economist
6569

Haven't you been paying attention. There is one specific allegation of him groping (a very specific act) a PhD student, GM, at a known workshop in San Diego in 2015, where GM told many others when it happened. So there are people that can corroborate the date and location. Can't be more clear than that. I'm sure that the ESA and AEA have more examples but obviously they are not going to announce them here.

What the exact punishment is depends on the strength of evidence on what exactly counts as assault. I think the proper role of ESA and AEA should be to establish guidelines for punishments for specific offenses and degrees of evidence...especially because of how polarized the conversation is.
GOssip about allegedly bad behavior is fine and normal. It's actually a good check against creepy behaviour, so long as punishments are not dolled out on that basis. In many cases "dont work with that creep" is closer to the right degree of punishment to "terminate and excommunicate".

This exact response is why I want nothing to do with the women in our profession. They’re shady af.

Oh no, not every woman in our profession is like GM. There are a lot of sane women around. Look at how people like GM damage the trust between men and women in the profession. Pretty bad.

2 months ago # QUOTE 3 Volod 1 Vlad !
Economist
5c89

“Oh no, not every woman in our profession is like GM. There are a lot of sane women around. Look at how people like GM damage the trust between men and women in the profession. Pretty bad.”

I actually observed econtwitter when Jen began that mess. Tons of poor behavior by young and old female professors and students. Tons of jumping on a bandwagon and running with gossip. This problem is something collective

2 months ago # QUOTE 5 Volod 1 Vlad !
Economist
373d

I don’t understand a defamation case against GM. She claims this happened. She reported it eight years ago. What’s the defamation case?

2 months ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 4 Vlad !
Economist
32ef

I don’t understand a defamation case against GM. She claims this happened. She reported it eight years ago. What’s the defamation case?

No, she seems to have made up the story. That's defamation. She didn't behave like she has been groped. She is vicious and should be punished.

2 months ago # QUOTE 8 Volod 1 Vlad !
Economist
10cd

I don’t understand a defamation case against GM. She claims this happened. She reported it eight years ago. What’s the defamation case?

No, she seems to have made up the story. That's defamation. She didn't behave like she has been groped. She is vicious and should be punished.

I being devils advocate. I personally don’t have a good feeling abt her but I’m trying to be open minded. She apparently made this claim 8 years ago. She seems to believe an unwanted touch occurred? What would dans lawyers need to show? That she lied 8 years ago?

I have another question, though. Does the law protect Jen sharing her opinions and reporting gossip on social media even if does cause harm and is not substantiated? When is something considered legally saying fire in a crowded theater?

2 months ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
6e29

Everyone wants all these guys to Sue but it’s a huge ordeal. It’s expensive, takes up your life, and can cause its own reputation costs.
But here’s the problem. Jen is a leopard and her spots won’t change. She’s a shark who got a taste of blood. She’s a Rottweiler witn a two ton jaw pressure who won’t let go. She’s everyone of those metaphors and more.
Best thing everyone can do is refuse to play by the collective shame playbook. You see Dan at a conference, you go up to him, ask him how he is, buy him dinner. Tell him you’re sorry this is going on. You see RANDY, you do it. You see anyone she named, and you compensate by being even more friendly. These guys have experienced ptsd level trauma and all the woke enablers are gas lighting them saying it’s nothing bc they have tenure. No. Go ask them how they are. You could even email Dypvig I bet and he’d reply. They’re pariahs now. No one has any info. You think john list has any info when he quote tweeted on Twitter shaming houser? A professional colleague of 30 years? Of course not. Why did he insert himself? Was it bc he knew things? No bc silence is viewed as complicit in supporting sexual assault and he wants to signal he’s an ally. It’s got nothing to do with Dan. Plus maybe he dislikes Dan. But no way he has any info bc his quote tweet literally said he learned AT DINNER (ie gossip).
A lot of this would’ve been clear to everyone ten years ago. It isn’t now. Best anyone can do is refuse to live in the matrix and just be decent. Of course if you learn from a student or colleague that they are experiencing assault, do something. Don’t do this garbage Jen is doing but there are established socially low cost ways to address this thay don’t have such massive Type 2 errors.

Stop and think why there is a reaction like this by women in the profession. It's because SH is widespread. Many have experienced it or know directly from someone who did. They are so tired of having to deal with this shit.

The real ordeal is trying to report SH. Imagine you go to a conference and a senior figure, who you probably admire, gropes you later while having drinks. What is your recourse? Call the police? Report to a university you are not part of when you know that, historically, nothing happens? Title IX officers will tell you that. They will say that if you report and nobody else has reported that person then the case will be thrown away and all you have accomplished is angering someone who can derail your career because reporting is not anonymous.

Twitter mobs are not the way to deal with this, but gossip networks saying "don't work with that guy" are obviously not enough to prevent this widespread behavior. Given that the profession has done nothing to reduce SH, it's not surprising that mobs happen. People don't follow DJ because of political correctness or because they want to be woke. The reaction is there because it's based on their lived experiences. So, if you want to be nice to real victims, how about you are nice to women.

2 months ago # QUOTE 2 Volod 7 Vlad !
Economist
d08a

Well good luck whoever you are.

Everyone wants all these guys to Sue but it’s a huge ordeal. It’s expensive, takes up your life, and can cause its own reputation costs.
But here’s the problem. Jen is a leopard and her spots won’t change. She’s a shark who got a taste of blood. She’s a Rottweiler witn a two ton jaw pressure who won’t let go. She’s everyone of those metaphors and more.
Best thing everyone can do is refuse to play by the collective shame playbook. You see Dan at a conference, you go up to him, ask him how he is, buy him dinner. Tell him you’re sorry this is going on. You see RANDY, you do it. You see anyone she named, and you compensate by being even more friendly. These guys have experienced ptsd level trauma and all the woke enablers are gas lighting them saying it’s nothing bc they have tenure. No. Go ask them how they are. You could even email Dypvig I bet and he’d reply. They’re pariahs now. No one has any info. You think john list has any info when he quote tweeted on Twitter shaming houser? A professional colleague of 30 years? Of course not. Why did he insert himself? Was it bc he knew things? No bc silence is viewed as complicit in supporting sexual assault and he wants to signal he’s an ally. It’s got nothing to do with Dan. Plus maybe he dislikes Dan. But no way he has any info bc his quote tweet literally said he learned AT DINNER (ie gossip).
A lot of this would’ve been clear to everyone ten years ago. It isn’t now. Best anyone can do is refuse to live in the matrix and just be decent. Of course if you learn from a student or colleague that they are experiencing assault, do something. Don’t do this garbage Jen is doing but there are established socially low cost ways to address this thay don’t have such massive Type 2 errors.

Stop and think why there is a reaction like this by women in the profession. It's because SH is widespread. Many have experienced it or know directly from someone who did. They are so tired of having to deal with this shit.
The real ordeal is trying to report SH. Imagine you go to a conference and a senior figure, who you probably admire, gropes you later while having drinks. What is your recourse? Call the police? Report to a university you are not part of when you know that, historically, nothing happens? Title IX officers will tell you that. They will say that if you report and nobody else has reported that person then the case will be thrown away and all you have accomplished is angering someone who can derail your career because reporting is not anonymous.
Twitter mobs are not the way to deal with this, but gossip networks saying "don't work with that guy" are obviously not enough to prevent this widespread behavior. Given that the profession has done nothing to reduce SH, it's not surprising that mobs happen. People don't follow DJ because of political correctness or because they want to be woke. The reaction is there because it's based on their lived experiences. So, if you want to be nice to real victims, how about you are nice to women.

Well you guys lost this ally that’s for sure. You get to ride this next part without any sympathy or assistance from me. If you don’t have the moral conscience to recognize the harm Jen and her enablers did, you don’t deserve Allies. So good luck.

2 months ago # QUOTE 12 Volod 1 Vlad !
Economist
39af

I don't know GM but I do know Dan, for years. I've seen him flirting with young PhDs on various occasions.
Moreover, I trust the people that have vouched for GM. If they believe her, so do I. Much better than any anonymous poster here or Dan himself, his reputation precedes him.

I've seen him "flirt",i.e., make jokes that men make only to women that they are attracted to, with juniors as well. I have no idea if it led anywhere. I would write it off as part wishful thinking, part nostalgia, and driven by the pleasure from charming an attractive woman and feeling like maybe "I still got it". As an old married man, I find it distasteful and undignified, but harmless.

2 months ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
1491

Yeah well said. Good luck with a career where you make 80% of the labor despise you.

2 months ago # QUOTE 3 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
3bc9

Stop and think why there is a reaction like this by women in the profession. It's because SH is widespread. Many have experienced it or know directly from someone who did. They are so tired of having to deal with this shit.
The real ordeal is trying to report SH. Imagine you go to a conference and a senior figure, who you probably admire, gropes you later while having drinks. What is your recourse? Call the police? Report to a university you are not part of when you know that, historically, nothing happens? Title IX officers will tell you that. They will say that if you report and nobody else has reported that person then the case will be thrown away and all you have accomplished is angering someone who can derail your career because reporting is not anonymous.
Twitter mobs are not the way to deal with this, but gossip networks saying "don't work with that guy" are obviously not enough to prevent this widespread behavior. Given that the profession has done nothing to reduce SH, it's not surprising that mobs happen. People don't follow DJ because of political correctness or because they want to be woke. The reaction is there because it's based on their lived experiences. So, if you want to be nice to real victims, how about you are nice to women.

Loads of crap here. Even if we forget for now if the alleged groping happened at all. Are you saying if a woman is groped by a senior figure at a public event (suppose there are witnesses), there is nothing she could do ? And people who witnessed it won’t say anything?
Not all women are angles, which is what you are suggesting. Anna Harvey and Jen Doleac are the evils ones for example. What they did to DeAngelo were horrendous. Can’t imagine what ordeal he went through. DH probably is going through the same. GM appears to be another evil one.
People who jumped onto the metoo Twitter train should be ashamed of themselves, especially the senior figures in the field. They are JD’s enablers. JD’s didn’t cause the damage all by herself. It’s disappointing.
Indeed someone raised a good point of being extra friendly to the real victims named by JD such as Greg, Dan, Scott and Mark. That’s what I’ll do.

2 months ago # QUOTE 5 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
0fd2

Alleged victim or self-described victim. Victimhood has not been established.

1. Did you observe the unwanted touch? What did you personally observe?
2. Did you speak directly to the victim? What specifically did the victim tell you happened?
If the answer to both of these is No, then why are you on here saying you know what happened? We already have facts that show Jen is a habitual liar who retaliates for petty reasons and all her observations should be dropped. They are biased. Touch but you also don’t let people guilt of DUI drive buses. So that leaves us with you needing to explain why you think your certainty over things you’ve not witnessed is so unassailable.

2 months ago # QUOTE 7 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
7b1b

I doubt I’ll ever be okay with what I saw happen last month. Seeing list and Dellavegna make their obligatory condemnations of Houser made me want to absolutely puke. They had no information, and condemned the guy ON TWITTER. You know why? They are kissing the ring. They don’t want Jen going after them.

It’s insane to watch SO MANY of the people you look up to disappoint you so quickly the way they did on Twitter. You guys on here constantly posting abt pubs and schools — you better be careful bc that’s the very mindset of the people I saw tuck tail on Twitter.

2 months ago # QUOTE 10 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
2640

What happened to the comp sci guy who adjusted his crotch in front of a woman at Dartmouth? Did he What happened to the comp sci guy who adjusted his crotch in front of a woman at Dartmouth? Did he metooed and fired?

2 months ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
fb33

SHAME

2 months ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
2f18

Your mistake was talking to a title IX officer and not the police.

Everyone wants all these guys to Sue but it’s a huge ordeal. It’s expensive, takes up your life, and can cause its own reputation costs.
But here’s the problem. Jen is a leopard and her spots won’t change. She’s a shark who got a taste of blood. She’s a Rottweiler witn a two ton jaw pressure who won’t let go. She’s everyone of those metaphors and more.
Best thing everyone can do is refuse to play by the collective shame playbook. You see Dan at a conference, you go up to him, ask him how he is, buy him dinner. Tell him you’re sorry this is going on. You see RANDY, you do it. You see anyone she named, and you compensate by being even more friendly. These guys have experienced ptsd level trauma and all the woke enablers are gas lighting them saying it’s nothing bc they have tenure. No. Go ask them how they are. You could even email Dypvig I bet and he’d reply. They’re pariahs now. No one has any info. You think john list has any info when he quote tweeted on Twitter shaming houser? A professional colleague of 30 years? Of course not. Why did he insert himself? Was it bc he knew things? No bc silence is viewed as complicit in supporting sexual assault and he wants to signal he’s an ally. It’s got nothing to do with Dan. Plus maybe he dislikes Dan. But no way he has any info bc his quote tweet literally said he learned AT DINNER (ie gossip).
A lot of this would’ve been clear to everyone ten years ago. It isn’t now. Best anyone can do is refuse to live in the matrix and just be decent. Of course if you learn from a student or colleague that they are experiencing assault, do something. Don’t do this garbage Jen is doing but there are established socially low cost ways to address this thay don’t have such massive Type 2 errors.

Stop and think why there is a reaction like this by women in the profession. It's because SH is widespread. Many have experienced it or know directly from someone who did. They are so tired of having to deal with this shit.
The real ordeal is trying to report SH. Imagine you go to a conference and a senior figure, who you probably admire, gropes you later while having drinks. What is your recourse? Call the police? Report to a university you are not part of when you know that, historically, nothing happens? Title IX officers will tell you that. They will say that if you report and nobody else has reported that person then the case will be thrown away and all you have accomplished is angering someone who can derail your career because reporting is not anonymous.
Twitter mobs are not the way to deal with this, but gossip networks saying "don't work with that guy" are obviously not enough to prevent this widespread behavior. Given that the profession has done nothing to reduce SH, it's not surprising that mobs happen. People don't follow DJ because of political correctness or because they want to be woke. The reaction is there because it's based on their lived experiences. So, if you want to be nice to real victims, how about you are nice to women.

2 months ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
2f18

Dellavigna and Malmendier saw a convenient smoke screen for Falk and went for it. Pretty simple

I doubt I’ll ever be okay with what I saw happen last month. Seeing list and Dellavegna make their obligatory condemnations of Houser made me want to absolutely puke. They had no information, and condemned the guy ON TWITTER. You know why? They are kissing the ring. They don’t want Jen going after them.
It’s insane to watch SO MANY of the people you look up to disappoint you so quickly the way they did on Twitter. You guys on here constantly posting abt pubs and schools — you better be careful bc that’s the very mindset of the people I saw tuck tail on Twitter.

2 months ago # QUOTE 1 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
9414

So the possible range we're talking about is from he put his hand on her shoulder during a conversation to he fingered her under the lunch table?

I know a girl who personally received an unsolicited shoulder massage from DH.. I wasn't there but she told me this when she explained to me why she avoided him. I would assume whatever happened with GM was along these lines.

we should definitely destroy someone's career for a shoulder massage. Yikes.

2 months ago # QUOTE 2 Volod 0 Vlad !

« Previous 1…131415…18 Next »

Recently Announced

Upcoming

Economics

Job Market

Off Topic

Job Market Wiki

Job Market Candidates

Updates

Georgia Michailidou's (NYU-AD) allegation against Daniel Houser of GMU:

Reply »