Also Christian Lindner was denied free speech at University of Hamburg:
https://www.forschung-und-lehre.de/politik/lindner-darf-nicht-an-uni-hamburg-reden-2235/
German Market
-
Why? Sure you can protest outside the building. But completely disrupting his constitutionally guaranteed right to lecture is a completely different matter.
Outsde the building? Oh come on... sounds like CDU 1967. I would be more worried about avalanches of hate mail and vitriol to regular politicians. From the same people saying they can "no longer say my opinion"
Recall: We are not talking about Lindner or other people here. We are talking about the founder of the AfD. Please do not throw up other stuff instead of discussing the main point (are you really criticizing students for peacefully protesting against Lucke?)
Anyway, this is a job market forum, so let's move on.
-
We are not talking about Lindner or other people here. We are talking about the founder of the AfD. Please do not throw up other stuff instead of discussing the main point
The main point is that the free speech by ordinary people (politicians and non-politicians) is blocked by left-wing antidemocrats. Lucke is only one example for this. In fact, the protests against him are only partially connected to his former role in the AfD. As was stated here before, every conservative-liberal person can be targeted by the left-wings.
-
From CL's twitter account:
An @unihh werden nicht nur Vorlesungen gestört. Auch ich wollte dort mit Studierenden diskutieren. Das wurde untersagt. Wir brauchen aber mehr #Debatte, nicht weniger. Ich habe die grüne Wissenschaftssenatorin per Brief aufgefordet, sich für die #Meinungsfreiheit einzusetzen. CL -
We are not talking about Lindner or other people here. We are talking about the founder of the AfD. Please do not throw up other stuff instead of discussing the main point
The main point is that the free speech by ordinary people (politicians and non-politicians) is blocked by left-wing antidemocrats. Lucke is only one example for this. In fact, the protests against him are only partially connected to his former role in the AfD. As was stated here before, every conservative-liberal person can be targeted by the left-wings.
Lucke, Petry, Gauland, Adam (the Afd founders) are no ordinary conservative-liberal politicians.
Also, I would dare to say that left-wing student protests disrupting some Vorlesung are pretty third order given that right-wing groups and individuals have started to kill people in Germany and are openly talking about overthrowing the system. That is a different kind of targeting.
Don't get me wrong, Lindner et al should be able to publicly speak and it is a shame if this is blocked. Lucke, I think, should expect protests, even inside the building.
But I would put things into perspective
-
We are not talking about Lindner or other people here. We are talking about the founder of the AfD. Please do not throw up other stuff instead of discussing the main point
The main point is that the free speech by ordinary people (politicians and non-politicians) is blocked by left-wing antidemocrats. Lucke is only one example for this. In fact, the protests against him are only partially connected to his former role in the AfD. As was stated here before, every conservative-liberal person can be targeted by the left-wings.
Lucke, Petry, Gauland, Adam (the Afd founders) are no ordinary conservative-liberal politicians.
Also, I would dare to say that left-wing student protests disrupting some Vorlesung are pretty third order given that right-wing groups and individuals have started to kill people in Germany and are openly talking about overthrowing the system. That is a different kind of targeting.
Don't get me wrong, Lindner et al should be able to publicly speak and it is a shame if this is blocked. Lucke, I think, should expect protests, even inside the building.
But I would put things into perspectiveThis kind of anti democratic mindset is truly shocking.
-
Calling the representatives of major democratically elected parties "no ordinary politician" is anti democratic.
Students are welcome to voice their opinion, but that's not what they do. They just want to block a professor from teaching things that don't fit an extreme left wing ideology. That the Hamburg government allows this is shocking.
-
Calling the representatives of major democratically elected parties "no ordinary politician" is anti democratic.
Students are welcome to voice their opinion, but that's not what they do. They just want to block a professor from teaching things that don't fit an extreme left wing ideology. That the Hamburg government allows this is shocking.They are not ordinary. They say so themselves. You are trying to whitewash the Afd as a regular party. It is not. Lindner shows political decency and clearly distances himself from exteremists of all spectrums, the same cannot be said of AfD politicians (Gauland is more to blame than Lucke of course).
My impression is that you are pointing to a few shouters and Asta people to discredit democratic student protests as a whole.
It is legitimate for students to protests against Lucke going back to business as usual. Things will cool off sooner or later.
But the hate-mail and email threats to politicians and many democrats in this country will continue. You do not seem to be very worried about that.
-
Calling the representatives of major democratically elected parties "no ordinary politician" is anti democratic.
Students are welcome to voice their opinion, but that's not what they do. They just want to block a professor from teaching things that don't fit an extreme left wing ideology. That the Hamburg government allows this is shocking.They are not ordinary. They say so themselves. You are trying to whitewash the Afd as a regular party. It is not. Lindner shows political decency and clearly distances himself from exteremists of all spectrums, the same cannot be said of AfD politicians (Gauland is more to blame than Lucke of course).
My impression is that you are pointing to a few shouters and Asta people to discredit democratic student protests as a whole.
It is legitimate for students to protests against Lucke going back to business as usual. Things will cool off sooner or later.
But the hate-mail and email threats to politicians and many democrats in this country will continue. You do not seem to be very worried about that.Thank you! I cannot stand the false equivalence of protesting the AfD (a party so extreme that it is watched over by the BfVS et al.) and "protesting" (through hate speech, slander and outright murder) of the "Altparteien" and "das System".
Ps: I am expecting the "argument" that the new fascists are the anti-facists at any more.
-
What exactly is shocking?
Lucke deserves freedom of speech but so do students. Shouting him down is a shame. Protesting is not.Lucke was shouted down. No one here has anything against peaceful protests.
Regarding your fear of right-wing ideologies: What about all the murders performed by illegal immigrants? What about the economic problems we face in Germany due to the fight against climate change or due to all the problems connected to the Euro? Shouldn't there be a party which clearly opposes this?
-
Again, you do not seem to be very worried about hate-mail, threats and even murder.
Instead you open up another topic (murders by immigrants) to divert the attention. Very typical reaction in righwting-troll-worldHate-mail and threats are much more of a left wing extremism issue. I am not sure when the AfD last advocated murder. On the other hand, the Green party has explicitly support left wing terrorism like the G7 "protests" in Hamburg.
Calling people that disagree with your extremist world view is not going to accomplish much. The fact is that we have a political situation in German where none of the traditional parties occupies the political spectrum to the right of the center. The CDU has moved so far left that has become unelectable for many conservatives. The CSU is better, but not on the ballot outside Bavaria. The AfD has become the only realistic alternative for voters that are not left wing. That's sad to some extent, and it is worrying that the party is also home to many neo-nazi types. But 90% of the party and its voters are orignary conservatives that would have voted CDU 5-10 years ago before it shifted left.
-
Protesting against Lucke (or people in general) makes no sense to me.
He is not a government or politician whose policies you can influence by protesting and shouting. What do the students want him to do now? Undo the AfD? Stop existing? Remember that the AfD was initially an anti-austerity party.
Even if you want to shout at him for founding the AfD: Do you really think everything would be peachy in German politics without him creating this party? Someone else would have founded a similar party - we have seen rising right-wing parties in other European countries after 2015 as well.
Therefore, protesting Lucke is just an un-justified ventilation of hate.
-
Again, you do not seem to be very worried about hate-mail, threats and even murder.
Instead you open up another topic (murders by immigrants) to divert the attention. Very typical reaction in righwting-troll-worldHate-mail and threats are much more of a left wing extremism issue. I am not sure when the AfD last advocated murder. On the other hand, the Green party has explicitly support left wing terrorism like the G7 "protests" in Hamburg.
Calling people that disagree with your extremist world view is not going to accomplish much. The fact is that we have a political situation in German where none of the traditional parties occupies the political spectrum to the right of the center. The CDU has moved so far left that has become unelectable for many conservatives. The CSU is better, but not on the ballot outside Bavaria. The AfD has become the only realistic alternative for voters that are not left wing. That's sad to some extent, and it is worrying that the party is also home to many neo-nazi types. But 90% of the party and its voters are orignary conservatives that would have voted CDU 5-10 years ago before it shifted left.You are delusional. The CDU has always been center-wing. For instance, consider this: https://www.politicalcompass.org/germany2017
I cannot understand how you can find it acceptable to vote for a party with a 10% share of neo-nazis (and I frankly suspect this to be a low estimate). Wie können Sie das mit Ihrem Gewissen vereinbaren?
Finally, poisining the well by calling the G7 protests as terrorist is just pathetic.
-
Again, you do not seem to be very worried about hate-mail, threats and even murder.
Instead you open up another topic (murders by immigrants) to divert the attention. Very typical reaction in righwting-troll-worldHate-mail and threats are much more of a left wing extremism issue. I am not sure when the AfD last advocated murder. On the other hand, the Green party has explicitly support left wing terrorism like the G7 "protests" in Hamburg.
Calling people that disagree with your extremist world view is not going to accomplish much. The fact is that we have a political situation in German where none of the traditional parties occupies the political spectrum to the right of the center. The CDU has moved so far left that has become unelectable for many conservatives. The CSU is better, but not on the ballot outside Bavaria. The AfD has become the only realistic alternative for voters that are not left wing. That's sad to some extent, and it is worrying that the party is also home to many neo-nazi types. But 90% of the party and its voters are orignary conservatives that would have voted CDU 5-10 years ago before it shifted left.You are delusional. The CDU has always been center-wing. For instance, consider this: https://www.politicalcompass.org/germany2017
I cannot understand how you can find it acceptable to vote for a party with a 10% share of neo-nazis (and I frankly suspect this to be a low estimate). Wie können Sie das mit Ihrem Gewissen vereinbaren?
Finally, poisining the well by calling the G7 protests as terrorist is just pathetic.Its obvious that the CDU has moved massively to the left under Merkel on most major issues.
And no, I do not fine neo-nazis acceptable by an measure. But the fact is that the vast majority of AfD members AND voters are simple conservative democrats, and demonizing them is not going to accomplish anything.
Finally, its hard to call the G7 "protests" anything but domestic terroisms. If you have seen the pictures you know that I am right.
-
Protesting against Lucke (or people in general) makes no sense to me.
He is not a government or politician whose policies you can influence by protesting and shouting. What do the students want him to do now? Undo the AfD? Stop existing? Remember that the AfD was initially an anti-austerity party.
Even if you want to shout at him for founding the AfD: Do you really think everything would be peachy in German politics without him creating this party? Someone else would have founded a similar party - we have seen rising right-wing parties in other European countries after 2015 as well.
Therefore, protesting Lucke is just an un-justified ventilation of hate.Very good observation.
-
Lucke, Petry, Gauland, Adam (the Afd founders) are no ordinary conservative-liberal politicians.
Lucke is indeed not an ordinary politician, because he is not a politician anymore at all. He is a professor of economics, a civil servant with the right and obligation to lecture. And it's the obligation of his employer (i.e. the state of Hamburg) to make sure he can do that. Case closed.
The funniest part of it all is then that the resident Pluralos of course also supported the protest, because they consider him a proponent of the evil and ominous "Neoklassik"...