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• Thread: 62103 Goods vs 47032 No Goods

1. Economist
   1fd3
   

   After being extremely happy to get a tenured W3 at a nice German university, I invited some old friends to celebrate. I had not seen them in a while, since I was busy with Zwischenevaluation and marking just below 1,000 exams. One of my friends had become Oberstudienrat at the same Gymnasium, we went to school around 20 years ago. He was full of reverence and pat me on the back asking in front of the entire crowd: "For all this work, your sacrifices, all your merits and achievements, I cannot tell how proud of you I am. Now tell me, what do you make?" I responded "90,000".
   --My friend laughed so hard and did not stopp, that I punched him right there. Now I have a lot more time for work and do not have to bother with so-called friends.

   That’s exactly right. Every teacher has a good/great salary without any risk of not getting tenured. And will still get a position if your university grades are below average. That is just a joke

   Dude, teachers have to teach 20 hours or so per week. I am toast after a 2 hours lecture where I barely have to interact with students.

   I think professors in Germany also have to teach at least 8-10 h a week. At least that was what I've been told.

   3 weeks ago # QUOTE 0 Good 1 No Good !

2. Economist
   5c63
   

   Yet, there's a shortage of high school teachers.

   3 weeks ago # QUOTE 0 Good 0 No Good !

3. Economist
   651b
   

   Yet, there's a shortage of high school teachers.

   And oversupply of phds/postdocs despite harder work and less pay.
   Maybe an economist should look at this problem.

   3 weeks ago # QUOTE 3 Good 0 No Good !

4. Economist
   37d2
   

   After being extremely happy to get a tenured W3 at a nice German university, I invited some old friends to celebrate. I had not seen them in a while, since I was busy with Zwischenevaluation and marking just below 1,000 exams. One of my friends had become Oberstudienrat at the same Gymnasium, we went to school around 20 years ago. He was full of reverence and pat me on the back asking in front of the entire crowd: "For all this work, your sacrifices, all your merits and achievements, I cannot tell how proud of you I am. Now tell me, what do you make?" I responded "90,000".
   --My friend laughed so hard and did not stopp, that I punched him right there. Now I have a lot more time for work and do not have to bother with so-called friends.

   That’s exactly right. Every teacher has a good/great salary without any risk of not getting tenured. And will still get a position if your university grades are below average. That is just a joke

   Dude, teachers have to teach 20 hours or so per week. I am toast after a 2 hours lecture where I barely have to interact with students.

   I think professors in Germany also have to teach at least 8-10 h a week. At least that was what I've been told.

   That's a lie. They teach 4h max, the remainder is Blockseminar, Doktorandenkolloquium etc.

   3 weeks ago # QUOTE 1 Good 3 No Good !

5. Economist
   37d2
   

   Even with 90k, there is an oversupply of people who want to be professors while there is an undersupply of people who want to be teachers. Tell me again who is overpaid?

   3 weeks ago # QUOTE 2 Good 0 No Good !

6. Economist
   c38f
   

   While I agree with your teacher vs. professor comparison (and especially that the salary of the latter is a joke compared to the teacher salary), I believe that German public sector net salary is not paid with the intention that anyone outperformes another part of the public sector. Yes, there are some small differences in salaries across public sector workers (usually caused by some form of Zulage), but they should be considered as a token of appreciation rather than to make someone rich...

   3 weeks ago # QUOTE 2 Good 0 No Good !

7. Economist
   5c53
   

   From a political perspective - econ profs are no more valued than teachers. Why do you think do they usually contact KPMG, McKinsey or alike for counseling? Few econ profs of course are an exception and might be asked as well (Fratscher, Fuest, among others)

   Your English is so bad. Not surprised you are not being asked.

   3 weeks ago # QUOTE 0 Good 0 No Good !

8. Economist
   e1c5
   

   From a political perspective - econ profs are no more valued than teachers. Why do you think do they usually contact KPMG, McKinsey or alike for counseling? Few econ profs of course are an exception and might be asked as well (Fratscher, Fuest, among others)

   Your English is so bad. Not surprised you are not being asked.

   Yet, there's a shortage of high school teachers.

   The question remains: why do people become juniorprofs instead of needed teachers, when teachers are better paid and in higher regard?

   Supply and demand fails to explain this.

   3 weeks ago # QUOTE 1 Good 0 No Good !

9. Economist
   37d2
   

   From a political perspective - econ profs are no more valued than teachers. Why do you think do they usually contact KPMG, McKinsey or alike for counseling? Few econ profs of course are an exception and might be asked as well (Fratscher, Fuest, among others)

   Your English is so bad. Not surprised you are not being asked.

   Yet, there's a shortage of high school teachers.

   The question remains: why do people become juniorprofs instead of needed teachers, when teachers are better paid and in higher regard?
   Supply and demand fails to explain this.

   Well maybe teachers are not really better paid relative to the difficulty of the job? It's not really a mystery.

   3 weeks ago # QUOTE 1 Good 0 No Good !

10. Economist
    765e
    

    https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/medizin/nikos-logothetis-hinforscher-ueber-seine-zeit-nach-dem-vermeintlichen-tierversuchs-skandal-a-d9f33394-ad62-4eec-9534-2e0843c08821

    shanghai >Germany

    3 weeks ago # QUOTE 0 Good 0 No Good !

11. Economist
    473d
    

    I want to see any high-school teacher in Germany who makes more than 100k. Even as the head of a huge school that's impossible.

    The base salary for a professor is around that, and it is possible to make twice that. Sounds like the right financial incentives to me (plus you have a much better life...).

    3 weeks ago # QUOTE 3 Good 0 No Good !

12. Economist
    769c
    

    I want to see any high-school teacher in Germany who makes more than 100k. Even as the head of a huge school that's impossible.
    The base salary for a professor is around that, and it is possible to make twice that. Sounds like the right financial incentives to me (plus you have a much better life...).

    Consider lifetime income, economist!

    3 weeks ago # QUOTE 0 Good 1 No Good !

13. Economist
    5ce9
    

    I find this wage-discussions a little disturbing. This mostly seems like an uninformed exchange between individuals who do not currently hold a professorship position anywhere, and probably never will. Surely, money matters, but as the teacher/prof demand-supply and salary discussion makes clear: if you want to become a professor in Germany to become rich, forget it. Sure, some profs are certainly making high salaries but these are almost certainly individuals who (a) could earn more elsewhere (b) don't derive their primary motivation for doing what they are doing form the salary. It should be clear that with the skill-set required to become professor in Germany, and even more so to become a top-paid prof in Germany, more money could be made elsewhere. Go and ask yourself: are you ready for this? If not, either spend your time moaning about the working conditions (somehow certain people still manage to publish well) or just move on to something better suited for your personality

    3 weeks ago # QUOTE 3 Good 0 No Good !

14. Economist
    59b5
    

    After being extremely happy to get a tenured W3 at a nice German university, I invited some old friends to celebrate. I had not seen them in a while, since I was busy with Zwischenevaluation and marking just below 1,000 exams. One of my friends had become Oberstudienrat at the same Gymnasium, we went to school around 20 years ago. He was full of reverence and pat me on the back asking in front of the entire crowd: "For all this work, your sacrifices, all your merits and achievements, I cannot tell how proud of you I am. Now tell me, what do you make?" I responded "90,000".
    --My friend laughed so hard and did not stopp, but I just shrugged and said: "I am not here to make money but to understand how the economy works. I would probably earn more in the industry."
    --Now the entire crowd burst out laughing at me.

    I find this wage-discussions a little disturbing. This mostly seems like an uninformed exchange between individuals who do not currently hold a professorship position anywhere, and probably never will. Surely, money matters, but as the teacher/prof demand-supply and salary discussion makes clear: if you want to become a professor in Germany to become rich, forget it. Sure, some profs are certainly making high salaries but these are almost certainly individuals who (a) could earn more elsewhere (b) don't derive their primary motivation for doing what they are doing form the salary. It should be clear that with the skill-set required to become professor in Germany, and even more so to become a top-paid prof in Germany, more money could be made elsewhere. Go and ask yourself: are you ready for this? If not, either spend your time moaning about the working conditions (somehow certain people still manage to publish well) or just move on to something better suited for your personality

    3 weeks ago # QUOTE 3 Good 0 No Good !

15. Economist
    73fa
    

    I think German W3 is comparable to US Econ salaries, in particular once you have 2+ kids and enjoy the lifestyle. You can live so well with that salary in, say, Bamberg, compared to a US place in Idaho. The fact that differntaial isn't that high to Gymnasiallehrer is something that annoys me too, but I think that is largely driven by the "old" salaries. New hires have a harder time I think

    3 weeks ago # QUOTE 1 Good 0 No Good !

16. Economist
    6581
    

    Salary of German highschool teachers is massively overstated in this thread.

    3 weeks ago # QUOTE 2 Good 0 No Good !

17. Economist
    765e
    

    After being extremely happy to get a tenured W3 at a nice German university, I invited some old friends to celebrate. I had not seen them in a while, since I was busy with Zwischenevaluation and marking just below 1,000 exams. One of my friends had become Oberstudienrat at the same Gymnasium, we went to school around 20 years ago. He was full of reverence and pat me on the back asking in front of the entire crowd: "For all this work, your sacrifices, all your merits and achievements, I cannot tell how proud of you I am. Now tell me, what do you make?" I responded "90,000".
    --My friend laughed so hard and did not stopp, but I just shrugged and said: "I am not here to make money but to understand how the economy works. I would probably earn more in the industry."
    --Now the entire crowd burst out laughing at me.

    I find this wage-discussions a little disturbing. This mostly seems like an uninformed exchange between individuals who do not currently hold a professorship position anywhere, and probably never will. Surely, money matters, but as the teacher/prof demand-supply and salary discussion makes clear: if you want to become a professor in Germany to become rich, forget it. Sure, some profs are certainly making high salaries but these are almost certainly individuals who (a) could earn more elsewhere (b) don't derive their primary motivation for doing what they are doing form the salary. It should be clear that with the skill-set required to become professor in Germany, and even more so to become a top-paid prof in Germany, more money could be made elsewhere. Go and ask yourself: are you ready for this? If not, either spend your time moaning about the working conditions (somehow certain people still manage to publish well) or just move on to something better suited for your personality
    

    This is seriously my way to go joke now

    3 weeks ago # QUOTE 0 Good 0 No Good !

18. Economist
    20bb
    

    anyone applied to the zeppelin position? any info?

    3 weeks ago # QUOTE 0 Good 0 No Good !

19. Economist
    765e
    

    the zeppelin was a bad strategy

    3 weeks ago # QUOTE 0 Good 0 No Good !

20. Economist
    7483
    

    I am seriously concerned that in an economics forum no one breaks down annaul salaries into hourly salaries.

    I know of teachers with A12 (elementary school, Hauptschule etc.) that have become millionaires. Of course not because of teaching, but they had enough additional time to earn money otherwise...

    3 weeks ago # QUOTE 1 Good 1 No Good !

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