German Market
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Teacher at Gymnasium (Bavaria):
A 13: 12 x 6 x 4,600.00 = 331,200.00
Studiendirektor: 12 x 35 x 5,000.00 = 2,100,000.00
Total: 2,431,200.00 EuroStudents: 20
Professor (Bavaria):
W1: 12 x 6 x 4,800.00 = 345,600.00
W3: 12 x 30 x 7,500.00 = 2,700,000.00
Total: 3,045,600.00 EuroStudents: 800
No discounting or general equilibrium effects considered.
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and what also matters is your professor pension, is much higher than for a teacher. It is a high percentage share of your last salary.
So overall, the w3 deal is not such a bad deal, thinking that you can live in a nice german town with good schools (for free), fine cultural activities, etc.Nobody who is even mildly competent earns only base salary for his entire career.
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Teacher at Gymnasium (Bavaria):
Total: 2,431,200.00 Euro
Students: 20Total: 3,045,600.00 Euro
Students: 800
No discounting or general equilibrium effects considered.1) More and more teachers aren't verbeamtet anymore.
2) Teaching hours per week: Bavarian teacher 23-27 vs. Professor 9
3) Weeks teaching: For professors, around 26. For teachers, around 38
4) Interactions with annoying parents: For professors, close to 0. For teachers, I don't want to know
5) Pensions depend on your last earnings, so NPV(W3 pension)>>>NPV(Studiendirektor pension) -
If there's one reason why German professors are much better paid than their colleagues in most of Europe (France, Benelux, Scandinavia, ...), then it's the fact that German teachers have negotiated pretty amazing wages for themselves and professors just have to point out that they deserve a bit more and get it. Thus, there are no large differentials between the two jobs. All these complaints are a bit silly. In particular, if you look away from the stars at, say, the 4th best researcher in a place like Giessen or Paderborn or Rostock, you'll most likely encounter someone who would have a hard time earning a comparable salary in any other European country, let alone with that level of job security.
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Teacher at Gymnasium (Bavaria):
A 13: 12 x 6 x 4,600.00 = 331,200.00
Studiendirektor: 12 x 35 x 5,000.00 = 2,100,000.00
Total: 2,431,200.00 Euro
Students: 20
Professor (Bavaria):
W1: 12 x 6 x 4,800.00 = 345,600.00
W3: 12 x 30 x 7,500.00 = 2,700,000.00
Total: 3,045,600.00 Euro
Students: 800
No discounting or general equilibrium effects considered.Why the heck are professors civil servants?
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After being extremely happy to get a tenured W3 at a nice German university, I invited some old friends to celebrate. I had not seen them in a while, since I was busy with Zwischenevaluation and marking just below 1,000 exams. One of my friends had become Oberstudienrat at the same Gymnasium, we went to school around 20 years ago. He was full of reverence and pat me on the back asking in front of the entire crowd: "For all this work, your sacrifices, all your merits and achievements, I cannot tell how proud of you I am. Now tell me, what do you make?" I responded "90,000".
--My friend laughed so hard and did not stopp, but I just shrugged and said: "I am not here to make money but to understand how the economy works. I would probably earn more in the industry."
--Now the entire crowd burst out laughing at me.I find this wage-discussions a little disturbing. This mostly seems like an uninformed exchange between individuals who do not currently hold a professorship position anywhere, and probably never will. Surely, money matters, but as the teacher/prof demand-supply and salary discussion makes clear: if you want to become a professor in Germany to become rich, forget it. Sure, some profs are certainly making high salaries but these are almost certainly individuals who (a) could earn more elsewhere (b) don't derive their primary motivation for doing what they are doing form the salary. It should be clear that with the skill-set required to become professor in Germany, and even more so to become a top-paid prof in Germany, more money could be made elsewhere. Go and ask yourself: are you ready for this? If not, either spend your time moaning about the working conditions (somehow certain people still manage to publish well) or just move on to something better suited for your personality
Lol
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I'm not so concerned about the rather small wage differential btw. W3 and, say, A15. I'm more concerned about the small within-W3 wage differential btw. an economics professor and a professor of the, say, "Arbeits-, Betriebs- und Organisationspsychologie"-type.
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Almost every pay grade in the world is a second-best with some unfairness or bad incentives. More performance pay will also create some by-products we don't like. Regarding professors, I'm okay with the idea that the hard-working types derive more utility intrinsically from working hard and having a better reputation.
I'm not so concerned about the rather small wage differential btw. W3 and, say, A15. I'm more concerned about the small within-W3 wage differential btw. an economics professor and a professor of the, say, "Arbeits-, Betriebs- und Organisationspsychologie"-type.
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In some states A15 is even better than W3 (at least if we only consider basic salary). This is one reason why the federal court demanded a change in the W3-Besoldung. Whether the states have successfully implemented such a change...well, I'll leave that open to discuss...
I'm not so concerned about the rather small wage differential btw. W3 and, say, A15. I'm more concerned about the small within-W3 wage differential btw. an economics professor and a professor of the, say, "Arbeits-, Betriebs- und Organisationspsychologie"-type.
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...says someone lazy and wants to be paid as well as his hard-working and more successful colleagues? BTW incentives could be given also thru teaching reductions given that teaching loads in Germany are higher than in any other country I know.
Also Germany is part of the world and the fact is that in the US and the UK incentives are very high powered. As a result many of the best German researchers are abroad and don't want to return.
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RR is certainly not one of the best German economists abroad. But he is a very good one. His top 5 is without a big shot like so many other top 5s. Almost none of his papers are with big shots. He has many highly cited top fields. But sure, he ain’t no Schneider, Doepke, Piazessi, Krueger. Why the emotions with this guy? Just take him for what he is. A very good but no star economist. Good enough for a good placement in Germany if he wants it? All day long.
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RR is certainly not one of the best German economists abroad. But he is a very good one. His top 5 is without a big shot like so many other top 5s. Almost none of his papers are with big shots. He has many highly cited top fields. But sure, he ain’t no Schneider, Doepke, Piazessi, Krueger. Why the emotions with this guy? Just take him for what he is. A very good but no star economist. Good enough for a good placement in Germany if he wants it? All day long.
Again, the issue is not his publication output, but his past interactions with German departments. People don't forget these kinds of things.