^ Forget about titles and even remuneration pre-tenure. Only thing that matters is whether you have sufficient time and resources to be so productive as to get a tenured W3 somewhere. That’s it.
yep, and a W1 in the end is just a postdoc with a fancy title.
btw, the lmu positions are mostly a13 afaik, not e13.
Does LMU Munich only hire at E13 these days? Just browsing their junior faculty list and there are SO many listed as wissensch. mitarbeiter / postdoctorand in German, but call themselves assistant professor on their personal websites. Are there no incentives to move away from these contracts since all their postdocs call themselves “assistant professors” anyways?
They all want to be "Professors" to make their parents proud; they are simply post-docs.
^ Forget about titles and even remuneration pre-tenure. Only thing that matters is whether you have sufficient time and resources to be so productive as to get a tenured W3 somewhere. That’s it.yep, and a W1 in the end is just a postdoc with a fancy title.
btw, the lmu positions are mostly a13 afaik, not e13.
A13/14. Same pay as W1 but no need for Berufungsverfahren and no admin tasks for post-docs
I think the recent hires are all e13, otherwise they wouldn’t be listed as “wissensch. mitar.” unless I’m mistaken. I mean we are splitting peanuts here, since all these pretenure contracts suck, but someone I know can’t apply for an eu blue card under a13 bc that’s some sort of legal student status lmao, plus under A13 you have to buy private health insurance..
^ Forget about titles and even remuneration pre-tenure. Only thing that matters is whether you have sufficient time and resources to be so productive as to get a tenured W3 somewhere. That’s it.yep, and a W1 in the end is just a postdoc with a fancy title.
btw, the lmu positions are mostly a13 afaik, not e13.A13/14. Same pay as W1 but no need for Berufungsverfahren and no admin tasks for post-docs
I don’t think it’s really about the salary, as others have mentioned. But independence, research budgets, teaching/admin loads, etc. matter for long term outcomes. Ina really competitive space, these seemingly meaningless differences in work conditions across contracts might make a difference for productivity.
Also, from the institution side, attracting talent isn’t just a game of finding people who are willing to do this job for as little pay as possible..
Wrong question. All that matters is that you increase chances of getting a permanent job. 500 or even 1000 Euro more or less won’t matter in the long run. Of course of you are just after the money, then leave academia behind right now!
I'd like to know too
Not LMU but: Postdoc is the wrong term. A Postdoc in the US is someone with 1-2 year contract. Either these are people who failed the market (bad) or people trying to extend tenure clock by spending a year in Princeton (good).
So if you call yourself a Postdoc people from the US assume you failed the market.
In my view the correct term for contract of a junior faculty in Germany is a non-TT assistant professorship.
Not LMU but: Postdoc is the wrong term. A Postdoc in the US is someone with 1-2 year contract. Either these are people who failed the market (bad) or people trying to extend tenure clock by spending a year in Princeton (good).
So if you call yourself a Postdoc people from the US assume you failed the market.
In my view the correct term for contract of a junior faculty in Germany is a non-TT assistant professorship.
then again, these positions do have almost all of the disadvantages of postdocs... in one way or another, you have to face the fact, that there's this time period between graduating from your PhD and getting a permanent position... I've talked to quite a few people who said it was a stressful time, maybe the most stressful time...
the poster above who said that what counts is what gives you a permanent position in the end is completely right. And when you get hung up on titles that people wear even though you think they should be called something different then you are thinking unhealthy thoughts. I'd rather be a reader in a good UK school than a "junior professor" in Bayreuth or Regensburg - even though only the latter is formally a "Prof. Dr."
wrong. Bonn produces top tier theorists and Behavioral economist and exports them globally. No other German place shows this consistently high level of placements. Checkout their record: https://www.bgse.uni-bonn.de/en/job-market/recent-placements
Bonn has been formed by Hildenbrand. It is as easy as that. Then they took the opportunity that the excellence initiative gave them. Moldovanu and Schweizer smart enough to push this.
Hildenbrand, Selten and Shaked was just a world class team of micro theorists ... if Shaked is your weak link, you have nothing to fear... and then the next version of Moldovanu, Noeldeke and Shaked was still pretty amazing.. and then Noeldeke and Shaked left, and Falk came and we got the Bonn of today and whatever it is... it's still nothing that Darmstadt can easily copy
History. Gone and over. Now Bonn is a Klitsche like the other places.
I am still lolling at the 2020 placement which is global top 10 level
Not LMU but: Postdoc is the wrong term. A Postdoc in the US is someone with 1-2 year contract. Either these are people who failed the market (bad) or people trying to extend tenure clock by spending a year in Princeton (good).
So if you call yourself a Postdoc people from the US assume you failed the market.
In my view the correct term for contract of a junior faculty in Germany is a non-TT assistant professorship.then again, these positions do have almost all of the disadvantages of postdocs... in one way or another, you have to face the fact, that there's this time period between graduating from your PhD and getting a permanent position... I've talked to quite a few people who said it was a stressful time, maybe the most stressful time...
the poster above who said that what counts is what gives you a permanent position in the end is completely right. And when you get hung up on titles that people wear even though you think they should be called something different then you are thinking unhealthy thoughts. I'd rather be a reader in a good UK school than a "junior professor" in Bayreuth or Regensburg - even though only the latter is formally a "Prof. Dr."
Do German universities prefer to hire postdocs or fresh PhDs as TT/Tenured W3?
I think for a fresh PhD on average you would have to have strong connections in the hiring committee and not so many tensions in there. And a strong profile, obviously. That's for TT.
For tenured professorships: no way you get one as a fresh PhD. Unless you are Peter Scholze caliber?
Do German universities prefer to hire postdocs or fresh PhDs as TT/Tenured W3?
Junior (with or without TT): Fresh PhDs quite common, especially at the places that go on the US market (Bonn, Konstanz, LMU, Mannheim,...). But junior position with TT is still rare in Germany.
W2 TT: Essentially no chance for fresh PhDs
W3: No chance for fresh PhDs
Do German universities prefer to hire postdocs or fresh PhDs as TT/Tenured W3?Junior (with or without TT): Fresh PhDs quite common, especially at the places that go on the US market (Bonn, Konstanz, LMU, Mannheim,...). But junior position with TT is still rare in Germany.
W2 TT: Essentially no chance for fresh PhDs
W3: No chance for fresh PhDs
subtle konstanz troll not so subtle.
Do German universities prefer to hire postdocs or fresh PhDs as TT/Tenured W3?Junior (with or without TT): Fresh PhDs quite common, especially at the places that go on the US market (Bonn, Konstanz, LMU, Mannheim,...). But junior position with TT is still rare in Germany.
W2 TT: Essentially no chance for fresh PhDs
W3: No chance for fresh PhDssubtle konstanz troll not so subtle.
Where is Konstanz? In which fields are they good?