Getting out of a teaching school is almost impossible

2 years - 450 posts - Latest - RSS
Thread: 987 Goods vs 315 No Goods

Economics Job Market Rumors » Job Market » Finance Job Rumors

Getting out of a teaching school is almost impossible

Economist
257c

I posted this awhile back but there is huge differences in teaching/service responsibilities across 3-3 schools. Some are 3-3 but it’s something like two sections of principles and one upper division each semester so you only have four preps total when up for tenure. In addition, you only hold two office hours total and can do MC tests for all grading. This along with only 2 hours a week of service and you could end up with more research time (but less resources) than profs at R1s.

Then there are awful 3-3 schools. Think SLAC with ridiculous teaching expectations, tons of preps , and a lot of time devoted to service/student engagement. This second type I would wager is impossible to escape.

The problem is when you are on the JM schools lie about what type of 3-3 they are.

2 years ago # QUOTE 23 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
969c

The crying is unbelievable. Op is lemon, you can publish fine at 3-3 if motivated. Teaching a 3/3 is literally a cush 20hr/week job for 30 weeks a year after you have things prepped. Research funds are nice but you don’t need them. Use publicly available data, think of better research ideas that are potential high caliber but not long term time horizon.

What publicly available finance data are you referring to? Don't be an A*hole, my friend.

2 years ago # QUOTE 7 Volod 5 Vlad !
Economist
031c

Yes. I did my undergrad at a CSU and thought they had it real good. I serve on a committee with a guy from the Bio department and his kids qualify for reduced lunch prices at school.

2 years ago # QUOTE 7 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
77c0

Yeah but you have a job and probably won't get laid off because you're useful. Applicants for one medium ranked school entry tenure track job are running at 300 plus this year.

As for research, John List started out as an Assistant Professor, Department of Economics, University of Central Florida.

2 years ago # QUOTE 2 Volod 5 Vlad !
Economist
646e

You are totally right. I am in a 3-3.

Most people don’t understand what 3-3 means.

We don’t have any database access. We don’t have seminars. When I present, only 2-3 people show up. They are fellow presenters. No one gives any feedback, no one cares.

Now they removed our research budget also because of Covid. So everything is out of pocket, including softwares, journal submissions, professional dues, conference fees.

Lots of great researchers are at 2-2 schools. Are you saying two courses a year completely kills your research career?

I am talking about my own experience. I have no idea what 2-2 feels like but most 3-3 schools literally have nothing in terms of research support.

3-3 schools are a complete waste of time. I am at a 3-3 school. Zero research support. I have to buy stata out of pocket. They don't care where you publish as long as they can be found in that so called ABDC List. Colleagues don't care about research. They tell you it is a teaching school. It is a hell on earth as far as research productivity is concerned. I am quitting this year for sure.

2 years ago # QUOTE 25 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
5d27

Same here. I feel you OP. Your only chance is co-authors.

2 years ago # QUOTE 7 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
130f

Don't think getting into a teaching school from MRM is an "underplacement"

But upward mobility is limited as you mention. But didn't you know this beforehand?

2 years ago # QUOTE 4 Volod 1 Vlad !
Economist
93ed

Almost everyone thinks they are underplaced. If moving up seems pretty hopeless, it probably means that you are not underplaced, or not too much anyway. Keep in mind that moving up from a 3-3 might mean moving up to a 3-2 or even a more research-friendly 3-3 first.

2 years ago # QUOTE 9 Volod 1 Vlad !
Economist
81ef

Moving up is possible but very rare for the reasons stated above. That said, you can much more easily move sideways to another 3-3 in a better location, or with more pay or better culture or whatever. Or at least you could before covid. Maybe just be happy to have an easy job for now?

2 years ago # QUOTE 5 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
618e

2-2 steady state with TAs, and 20 students per class, is VERY different from 3-3 without graders or TAs and 70 students per class.

2 years ago # QUOTE 16 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
61bf

I agree. Now that I have a lot of teaching and publishing experience it’s a great job.

When I first started though, I didn’t know how to teach or publish, and was miserable.

You can be patient and ride out the learning curve. Or you can throw a little fit and work for zuckerberg or trump.

The crying is unbelievable. Op is lemon, you can publish fine at 3-3 if motivated. Teaching a 3/3 is literally a cush 20hr/week job for 30 weeks a year after you have things prepped. Research funds are nice but you don’t need them. Use publicly available data, think of better research ideas that are potential high caliber but not long term time horizon.

2 years ago # QUOTE 5 Volod 2 Vlad !
Economist
7a58

The crying is unbelievable. Op is lemon, you can publish fine at 3-3 if motivated. Teaching a 3/3 is literally a cush 20hr/week job for 30 weeks a year after you have things prepped. Research funds are nice but you don’t need them. Use publicly available data, think of better research ideas that are potential high caliber but not long term time horizon.

What publicly available finance data are you referring to? Don't be an A*hole, my friend.

I'm not going to do your homework for you but there's plenty of fields where you can carve out a niche with limited research resources. Maybe just using compustat/crsp and not much else.

2 years ago # QUOTE 1 Volod 4 Vlad !
Economist
3203

I teach 4-4 at my Cal State campus. I can’t afford a house in SoCal and no raises the next couple of years.

Cal states sound like a rough placement. I was on the committee of a PhD student in another department and I was shocked by her offer- 4-4 with some vague suggestion that there were some duties that could be u set taken in return for a course release. What I thought was odd was that the faculty in her department were listed by name on the website but with no other description of them or their work.

2 years ago # QUOTE 1 Volod 4 Vlad !
Economist
ffb2

I teach 4-4 at my Cal State campus. I can’t afford a house in SoCal and no raises the next couple of years.

Cal states sound like a rough placement. I was on the committee of a PhD student in another department and I was shocked by her offer- 4-4 with some vague suggestion that there were some duties that could be u set taken in return for a course release. What I thought was odd was that the faculty in her department were listed by name on the website but with no other description of them or their work.

schools within cal state are very different. some are 3-3 and others may be 4-4

2 years ago # QUOTE 1 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
9529

I moved up from a 3-3 teaching school to an upper MRM. Trick was to work 80 hour weeks, get 2 good pubs, and not care about my teaching too much (only gave mc tests, etc). Got out after 2 years. So thankful I did before COVID struck.

2 years ago # QUOTE 12 Volod 1 Vlad !
Economist
c408

We’re a “lower Cal State,” whatever that means...not SDSU or CPP. Our 4-4 can be 4-3 with some pubs and even 3-3 with tons of service.
They don’t list our publications on our site because you’ve never heard of some of the journals.

I teach 4-4 at my Cal State campus. I can’t afford a house in SoCal and no raises the next couple of years.

Cal states sound like a rough placement. I was on the committee of a PhD student in another department and I was shocked by her offer- 4-4 with some vague suggestion that there were some duties that could be u set taken in return for a course release. What I thought was odd was that the faculty in her department were listed by name on the website but with no other description of them or their work.

schools within cal state are very different. some are 3-3 and others may be 4-4

2 years ago # QUOTE 1 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
3f34

What’s an example of a 3-3 school? Which Calstate is 4-4?

2 years ago # QUOTE 1 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
fbef

I moved up from a 3-3 teaching school to an upper MRM. Trick was to work 80 hour weeks, get 2 good pubs, and not care about my teaching too much (only gave mc tests, etc). Got out after 2 years. So thankful I did before COVID struck.

I call it B/S/ unless your two good pubs were 2 tops fives. There is no way MRM will hire someone with 2 top fields.

2 years ago # QUOTE 3 Volod 2 Vlad !
Economist
6ec5

CSUs are all 4/4 by the collective bargaining agreement, but individual departments often have 3/3 (and further course releases for new faculty), especially if you’re in the business school (for econs).

I regret coming here, but the only other offer I got when I was on the market was a small private school w a 4/3, more preps, and financial difficulties. Overall, this was the better bet. In covidland, it’s a cushy gig, even though we will either get a pay cut or several years of no raises.

2 years ago # QUOTE 4 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
a5f8

Yea it's BS. You moved from a teaching school to BU and we don't know?

I moved up from a 3-3 teaching school to an upper MRM. Trick was to work 80 hour weeks, get 2 good pubs, and not care about my teaching too much (only gave mc tests, etc). Got out after 2 years. So thankful I did before COVID struck.

I call it B/S/ unless your two good pubs were 2 tops fives. There is no way MRM will hire someone with 2 top fields.

2 years ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !

« Previous 123…23 Next »

Recently Announced

Upcoming

Economics

Job Market

Off Topic

Job Market Wiki

Job Market Candidates

Updates

Getting out of a teaching school is almost impossible

Reply »