Close

Complete Captcha

• 4 years - 84 posts - Latest - RSS
• Thread: 64 Goods vs 3 No Goods

1. Economist
   cd2a
   

   Again thanks! I assume they take into account every month one has contributed to the Rentenversicherung in previous occupations (Zivildienst, work during ugrad etc.).

   Thanks to the previous posters for your detailed answers. Related, are you forced to retire @ 67? and is there a minmum nuber of years you need to have worked to get a full pension? What I am getting at is, is there some age at which moving back is simply not an option any longer?

   You are forced to retire at 67 (at least for the moment), and your pension is a linear function of the number of years you have worked, with the full pension being achieved with 40 years of work experience. Work outside the German university system may be counted, but you need to double-check and possibly negotiate this.
   However, if you are older than 40-50 (depending on the state) becoming "beamter" is no longer possible, and the conditions when being "angestellter" are generally not very attractive.

   4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Jab 0 No Jab !

2. Economist
   4051
   

   Yes

   4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Jab 0 No Jab !

3. Economist
   2b9c
   

   Are you in VWL or BWL? Is moving back really as hard as some claim it is? I care about scholarship, but I also care about being closer to my family...

   Not that guy. Moved back, big mistake. If you care about scholarship (which I still do too much) Germany isn't for you. If you love scheming, politicking, exercising power over a bunch of subordinates - Germany is paradise.

   4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Jab 0 No Jab !

4. Economist
   2b9c
   

   Re incentives for scholarship, how much do German BWL departments care about the Handelsblatt ranking these days? My impression is people do care. Wouldn't it be a net benefit having faculty who have good pubs (esp. places like Mannheim or private schools that care about international rankings)?

   4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Jab 0 No Jab !

5. Economist
   1811
   

   Re incentives for scholarship, how much do German BWL departments care about the Handelsblatt ranking these days? My impression is people do care.

   They care but what is more important (in my opinion) is that all the Juniorprofessors and PhD ONLY look at the Handelsblatt. They plan their pubs strategically like in the US, except that it is a "German" list.

   4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Jab 0 No Jab !

6. Economist
   2b9c
   

   Not sure I understand you.

   Why is it important that juniors ONLY look at Handelsblatt? Because Handelsblatt overweighted B journals?

   What do you mean by "German" list?

   And isn't the fact that people care a sign that pubs matter? Even if the methodology is different from the one that Chicago or Wharton use.

   Re incentives for scholarship, how much do German BWL departments care about the Handelsblatt ranking these days? My impression is people do care.

   They care but what is more important (in my opinion) is that all the Juniorprofessors and PhD ONLY look at the Handelsblatt. They plan their pubs strategically like in the US, except that it is a "German" list.

   4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Jab 0 No Jab !

7. Germanbro
   Rep: 12

   By and large I think the HB ranking has been good for German academia. It is not perfect, but it makes people realize that they should publish in refereed journals.

   For juniors, the problem is that they often lack an advisor who looks at this in a balanced way - it's either "I do not follow the publishing mania and continue writing for Apothekerblatt" or "only AER/ManScience counts". Hence juniors often adopt the list without reflecting how non-German scholars will look at this. Why else would Potrafke do what he does?

   For departments, another key consideration is equity. By definition, all chairs are the best (and the only ones) in their field at that university, so the dominant logic is not to differentiate because fields are different, blah, blah. This creates huge tensions if some people appear in HB and others do not when really everyone is equally brilliant. Also creates these bizarre effects whenever one journal is upgraded or conference proceedings are included like recently in Wirtschaftsinformatik - makes all WI guys look like the Acemoglus of BWL...

   4 years ago # QUOTE 1 Jab 0 No Jab !

8. Economist
   4051
   

   @ Potrafke: I don't deny that the incentives work towards producing CVs like his, but have you considered the possibility that he couldn't do better.

   @ scholarship: caring about HB ranking doesn't equal scholarship

   @ obsession of each chair to be the best: that nails it. There we have the cause of the problem to which we go back over and over again - the chair system.

   @ HB ranking. Do people care? Somewhat but in a strategic way - if they want you or you are somehow in good graces and you have many HB points they will point that out, if they hate you and have many HB points they will claim you are not a true scholar, and so on and so forth...

   4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Jab 0 No Jab !

9. Economist
   4051
   

   And moving back to Germany is not hard, just the nature of your job changes. From mostly being a scholar and teacher to being an administrator, manager, boss, and teacher, but in a very different way: you teach mass classes to students that don't care, for whom human capital investment is an evil word, etc.

   4 years ago # QUOTE 1 Jab 0 No Jab !

10. Economist
    2b9c
    

    I never really understood why the chair system is to blame. Presumably all chairs want to be equally good so they don't want better people to be hired in their department? But that could also happen in a department system as well, no?

    And is the system only broken in economic / business, or in all social sciences / law, or in all fields of German academia?

    @ Potrafke: I don't deny that the incentives work towards producing CVs like his, but have you considered the possibility that he couldn't do better.
    @ scholarship: caring about HB ranking doesn't equal scholarship
    @ obsession of each chair to be the best: that nails it. There we have the cause of the problem to which we go back over and over again - the chair system.
    @ HB ranking. Do people care? Somewhat but in a strategic way - if they want you or you are somehow in good graces and you have many HB points they will point that out, if they hate you and have many HB points they will claim you are not a true scholar, and so on and so forth...

    4 years ago # QUOTE 2 Jab 0 No Jab !

11. Economist
    4e8c
    

    I have been in hiring committees (as external member) in several french speaking swiss universities and did not see any sign of corruption. All members were always trying to hire the best person (with some positive gander bias imposed by the rectorate)

    Austria more corrupt and local, Switzerland outside of Zurich, Bern and maybe Lausanne/Geneva as well. Zurich depends on whether Ernst likes you. No idea about the Netherlands.

    How about BWL at Zurich, Bern, Lausanne (HEC) and St. Gallen? and ETH-Z and EPFL (both have BWL type departments)?

    4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Jab 0 No Jab !

12. Economist
    2b9c
    

    Not even discrimination of non-Swiss or non French educated people?

    I have been in hiring committees (as external member) in several french speaking swiss universities and did not see any sign of corruption. All members were always trying to hire the best person (with some positive gander bias imposed by the rectorate)

    Austria more corrupt and local, Switzerland outside of Zurich, Bern and maybe Lausanne/Geneva as well. Zurich depends on whether Ernst likes you. No idea about the Netherlands.

    How about BWL at Zurich, Bern, Lausanne (HEC) and St. Gallen? and ETH-Z and EPFL (both have BWL type departments)?

    4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Jab 0 No Jab !

13. Economist
    4051
    

    Chair system somehow enables you to intellectually isolate from the rest of the world and even your colleagues. Strong chairs come with weak deans / department heads, who in the US can punish bad scholarship and behavior dictatorially. Chair system means a lot of doubling up on admin that should be handled in a centralized way.

    That is not to say that there are no counterexamples, a well functioning department with chairs and terribly dysfunctional US style departments, but the tendency is clear: organization matters for performance.

    4 years ago # QUOTE 1 Jab 1 No Jab !

14. Economist
    4051
    

    Oh and the other thing the chair system does: it cements the illusion of professorial equality.

    4 years ago # QUOTE 1 Jab 1 No Jab !

15. Economist
    2b9c
    

    To be clear, you're speaking about BWL here? Do you think German speaking Switzerland is somehow worse than the French speaking bros?

    I have been in hiring committees (as external member) in several french speaking swiss universities and did not see any sign of corruption. All members were always trying to hire the best person (with some positive gander bias imposed by the rectorate)

    Austria more corrupt and local, Switzerland outside of Zurich, Bern and maybe Lausanne/Geneva as well. Zurich depends on whether Ernst likes you. No idea about the Netherlands.

    How about BWL at Zurich, Bern, Lausanne (HEC) and St. Gallen? and ETH-Z and EPFL (both have BWL type departments)?

    4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Jab 0 No Jab !

16. Economist
    a5dd
    

    Not sure I understand you.
    Why is it important that juniors ONLY look at Handelsblatt? Because Handelsblatt overweighted B journals?
    What do you mean by "German" list?
    And isn't the fact that people care a sign that pubs matter? Even if the methodology is different from the one that Chicago or Wharton use.

    Sorry for being short. In BWL this list was established by voting of all members in the association (VHB). There, some rigging happend. And: This list can be gamed. For example, Steuern und Wittschaft is a solid B etc. So looking only at the list will distort "reasonable" or "solid" behavior.

    4 years ago # QUOTE 2 Jab 0 No Jab !

17. Economist
    a5dd
    

    http://vhbonline.org/VHB4you/jourqual/vhb-jourqual-3/gesamtliste/

    4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Jab 0 No Jab !

18. Economist
    1896
    

    How is life as a W3 professor in Germany with a non-working wife and 2 kids? Can you live comfortably or would you struggle? I know you make less than US professors but a German friend told me that a W3 salary puts you among the top 5% income earners in Germany (and even top 2-3% if you factor in pension benefits & less taxes etc.). Is that really true?

    4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Jab 0 No Jab !

19. Economist
    b327
    

    I don't know about the exact income percentiles, but yes you can live comfortably. For one thing, you never worry about education expenses.

    As I have said before: if you don't care about scholarship, being a German professor is a great thing.

    4 years ago # QUOTE 1 Jab 0 No Jab !

20. Economist
    1896
    

    Is the scholarship part only true of econ / business or also true of other subjects?

    How easy is it to have policy influence as a German prof?

    I don't know about the exact income percentiles, but yes you can live comfortably. For one thing, you never worry about education expenses.
    As I have said before: if you don't care about scholarship, being a German professor is a great thing.

    4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Jab 0 No Jab !

Reply »