Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. Therefore choices about abortion are primarily choices about the body of the one who is pregnant.
I cannot believe that such obvious things have to be stated, but apparently many people in this forum are not aware of this simple fact.
What if instead the fetus is the owner of its own body, and the mother is just a package around it?
Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. Therefore choices about abortion are primarily choices about the body of the one who is pregnant.
I cannot believe that such obvious things have to be stated, but apparently many people in this forum are not aware of this simple fact.
For the millionth time, the question is one of personhood. I can not believe such obvious things have to be stated. If you believe the fetus has personhood, it can’t simply be the choice of the mother whether that person lives or dies. But if it’s not a person, your position is more reasonable. So the issue revolves around personhood.
“My body, my choice” is a slogan, not a philosophical argument.
So if you can't remember something now you could never remember it? Is that some bizarre troll?
The question is what determines when life starts. Some say it's the heartbeat. I say it's when you can hold memories, ie. have consciousness. I can't remember my life as a fetus so I wouldn't mind if someone killed me back then!
Pregnant women are people. Again, I cannot believe that such obvious things have to be stated, but apparently some people on this forum do not understand this. Like e6fd, who suggests to view pregnant women as packages.
E051, what you mention is indeed a related question, and an important one. But it doesn't change the fact that abortion is the termination of pregnancy. It also doesn't change the fact that pregnancy is something that is happening to a woman's body. Restricting abortion is therefore restricting the choices that women can make about their own body. These facts are the starting point. Your related question can be discussed only after acknowledging this starting point.
Pregnant women are people. Again, I cannot believe that such obvious things have to be stated, but apparently some people on this forum do not understand this. Like e6fd, who suggests to view pregnant women as packages.
E051, what you mention is indeed a related question, and an important one. But it doesn't change the fact that abortion is the termination of pregnancy. It also doesn't change the fact that pregnancy is something that is happening to a woman's body. Restricting abortion is therefore restricting the choices that women can make about their own body. These facts are the starting point. Your related question can be discussed only after acknowledging this starting point.
I'm pretty sure e6fd said the packaged thing to make fun of you saying that choices about abortion are choices about the body (of the mother). S/he just inverted the argument expecting you to realize how stupid it is what you're saying
The question is what determines when life starts. Some say it's the heartbeat. I say it's when you can hold memories, ie. have consciousness. I can't remember my life as a fetus so I wouldn't mind if someone killed me back then!
Can you remember your life as a one year old?
Pregnant women are people. Again, I cannot believe that such obvious things have to be stated, but apparently some people on this forum do not understand this. Like e6fd, who suggests to view pregnant women as packages.
E051, what you mention is indeed a related question, and an important one. But it doesn't change the fact that abortion is the termination of pregnancy. It also doesn't change the fact that pregnancy is something that is happening to a woman's body. Restricting abortion is therefore restricting the choices that women can make about their own body. These facts are the starting point. Your related question can be discussed only after acknowledging this starting point.
Ok. Here is you starting point: a pregnancy occurs within women. This is obvious to everybody. However, an abortion decision is *not* about a woman's body part. A baby is not a cyst. A baby is not lump. He or she is a self human being who happens to be developing within the mother. The decision of terminate a pregnancy is ultimately the decision to kill that human being. You might want to tell yourself that this is like removing a cyst. But it is plain murder.
Good counter argument.
The conditions are actually 2.
First one is wether the subject has "personhood". Does it have an identity, does it have a concept of time.
The second one is wether the subject experiences pain.
(Peter singer has written on this extensively, I recommend his work to everyone).
The consensus here in most EU countries is that before before 12 weeks a fetus cannot experience pain.
And a fetus of course does not have a Personhood.
Thus abortion is decriminalised before week nr 12.
(Yes decriminalised is the right word, at least here in Germany)Are parents OK killing their child if the child is in a reversable coma state? The child won't have a sense of time nor feel pain.
Well no, of course not.
The point is that parents who want an abortion, don't want the fetus, that's why they want to abort it.
Well no, of course not.
The point is that parents who want an abortion, don't want the fetus, that's why they want to abort it.
Your argument is still weak. What if the child is the kid of a single mother who doesn't want him/her anymore because she believes the kid is harming her date and job prospects?
After going to a party one night, you wake up the next day to find yourself lying in a hospital bed with tubes coming out of your body, and going into the body of a man lying in a coma next to you. It turns out that this man has a rare blood ailment that can only be cured by filtering your blood through his body. His family has discovered that you are the only person with blood which will support him, and so they have drugged you and hooked you up to him.
Should it be allowed for you to disconnect yourself from the tubes and leave? If you do so, the man will die.
After going to a party one night, you wake up the next day to find yourself lying in a hospital bed with tubes coming out of your body, and going into the body of a man lying in a coma next to you. It turns out that this man has a rare blood ailment that can only be cured by filtering your blood through his body. His family has discovered that you are the only person with blood which will support him, and so they have drugged you and hooked you up to him.
Should it be allowed for you to disconnect yourself from the tubes and leave? If you do so, the man will die.
When abortion occurs, it is almost always in response to a conception that occurred knowingly and voluntarily. So this argument doesn't work.
If it's before 12 weeks then the fetus cannot feel pain and no one wants it anyway, so I'm ok with it being aborted.This is a fine rule. Those who say "It a women's body", are you ok with 9 month abortions.
I actually believe no one would be for 9 month abortions.
It's also very unlikely that a pregnant woman decides on abortion so late.
Why would she?
After going to a party one night, you wake up the next day to find yourself lying in a hospital bed with tubes coming out of your body, and going into the body of a man lying in a coma next to you. It turns out that this man has a rare blood ailment that can only be cured by filtering your blood through his body. His family has discovered that you are the only person with blood which will support him, and so they have drugged you and hooked you up to him.
Should it be allowed for you to disconnect yourself from the tubes and leave? If you do so, the man will die.When abortion occurs, it is almost always in response to a conception that occurred knowingly and voluntarily. So this argument doesn't work.
Great point. Also, the example suggests a lot of restraint on one's freedom - which is not the case for pregnancy.