Peter Arcidiacono Harvard Asian discrimination paper out

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Peter Arcidiacono Harvard Asian discrimination paper out

Economist
c2ef

Asian American Discrimination in Harvard Admissions

Peter Arcidiacono, Josh Kinsler, Tyler Ransom
NBER Working Paper No. 27068
Issued in April 202

we show that there is a substantial penalty against Asian Americans in admissions with limited scope for omitted variables to overturn the result.

This is because (i) Asian Americans are substantially stronger than whites on the observables associated with admissions and (ii) the richness of the data yields a model that predicts admissions extremely well.

Our preferred model shows that Asian Americans would be admitted at a rate 19% higher absent this penalty.

Controlling for one of the primary channels through which Asian American applicants are discriminated against--the personal rating--cuts the Asian American penalty by less than half, still leaving a substantial penalty.

6 months ago # QUOTE 34 Dolphin 3 Shark !
Economist
9600

The biggest fraud of the 21st century!
People make the news for calling out racism in places where it's actual existence is very tenuous and questionable.
This is the one place it's glaringly obvious and evident and people blindly ignore and suppress it and, if it's ever brought up, argue that this racism is for the greater good.

6 months ago # QUOTE 45 Dolphin 0 Shark !
Economist
3f8f

Asian perform very well in standard tests but real perfomance comes from somewhere else.

6 months ago # QUOTE 6 Dolphin 18 Shark !
Economist
b7d2

And before anyone says that these are drones from Asia that only know how to take tests, remember that the sample consists of Asian Americans. Not international students. Moreover, Harvard interviewers themselves gave Asian applicants scores that were at least as high as white applicants. It was only this backroom personality score that was systematically bringing down Asian Americans.

Its honestly disgraceful. There is a lot of talk in the Econ community concerning discrimination against women and minorities, even when the data and evidence is often not there at times. However, in a case where the data so clearly screams discrimination, you have people like Card sell out and still deny that Asian Americans are being shafted.

6 months ago # QUOTE 47 Dolphin 0 Shark !
Economist
6467

But they're raised by China parents who train their children as they've been trained themselves: to memorize material and focus on becoming proficient at passing exams, rather than on developing their abilities to think through things themselves from first principles, and creativity.

And before anyone says that these are drones from Asia that only know how to take tests, remember that the sample consists of Asian Americans. Not international students. Moreover, Harvard interviewers themselves gave Asian applicants scores that were at least as high as white applicants. It was only this backroom personality score that was systematically bringing down Asian Americans.
Its honestly disgraceful. There is a lot of talk in the Econ community concerning discrimination against women and minorities, even when the data and evidence is often not there at times. However, in a case where the data so clearly screams discrimination, you have people like Card sell out and still deny that Asian Americans are being shafted.

6 months ago # QUOTE 4 Dolphin 29 Shark !
Economist
f409

You lïberals are dis-gusting.

But they're raised by China parents who train their children as they've been trained themselves: to memorize material and focus on becoming proficient at passing exams, rather than on developing their abilities to think through things themselves from first principles, and creativity.

And before anyone says that these are drones from Asia that only know how to take tests, remember that the sample consists of Asian Americans. Not international students. Moreover, Harvard interviewers themselves gave Asian applicants scores that were at least as high as white applicants. It was only this backroom personality score that was systematically bringing down Asian Americans.
Its honestly disgraceful. There is a lot of talk in the Econ community concerning discrimination against women and minorities, even when the data and evidence is often not there at times. However, in a case where the data so clearly screams discrimination, you have people like Card sell out and still deny that Asian Americans are being shafted.

6 months ago # QUOTE 23 Dolphin 3 Shark !
Economist
9321

Some uneducated kids think that one can do STEM PhD or masters by memorising. You need to think about some better excuses.

6 months ago # QUOTE 3 Dolphin 9 Shark !
Economist
3f8f

A great SAT performance and good piano abilities do not lead to a top performance later in their life.

I have no connection with Harvard, and I actually live in Europe. I actually think there is an over emphasis on the importance of Harvard and more democratic systems like the German ones are better.

And before anyone says that these are drones from Asia that only know how to take tests, remember that the sample consists of Asian Americans. Not international students. Moreover, Harvard interviewers themselves gave Asian applicants scores that were at least as high as white applicants. It was only this backroom personality score that was systematically bringing down Asian Americans.
Its honestly disgraceful. There is a lot of talk in the Econ community concerning discrimination against women and minorities, even when the data and evidence is often not there at times. However, in a case where the data so clearly screams discrimination, you have people like Card sell out and still deny that Asian Americans are being shafted.

6 months ago # QUOTE 5 Dolphin 10 Shark !
Economist
68ff

I assume you apply your reasoning equally across all groups?

And assuming what you say is correct, it is surely a great loss and disadvantage to have the creativity drained from your soul throughout your childhood. Surely there should be affirmative action to enable these poor robotic people to see the light and be nurtured and inspired by the most talented professors at Harvard? The same way we nurture the talents of the poor women who've been misguided all their lives into playing with barbie dolls and sent subtle signals that STEM careers are not for them.

But they're raised by China parents who train their children as they've been trained themselves: to memorize material and focus on becoming proficient at passing exams, rather than on developing their abilities to think through things themselves from first principles, and creativity.

And before anyone says that these are drones from Asia that only know how to take tests, remember that the sample consists of Asian Americans. Not international students. Moreover, Harvard interviewers themselves gave Asian applicants scores that were at least as high as white applicants. It was only this backroom personality score that was systematically bringing down Asian Americans.
Its honestly disgraceful. There is a lot of talk in the Econ community concerning discrimination against women and minorities, even when the data and evidence is often not there at times. However, in a case where the data so clearly screams discrimination, you have people like Card sell out and still deny that Asian Americans are being shafted.

6 months ago # QUOTE 17 Dolphin 0 Shark !
Economist
9600

lol, your argument is that asians do better on the tests because they know the material better but it doesn't come from the heart of understanding the platonic ideals behind the material. Other kids inherently know this better through their upbrininging but not the actual facts that are built on top of these core ideas so they don't do as well on tests. Other kids know the first principles but they don't have the ability to problem solve with them to get to the right answers. You have no actual studies or evidence to back this up except for some racist thought about asian parents and creativity.

But they're raised by China parents who train their children as they've been trained themselves: to memorize material and focus on becoming proficient at passing exams, rather than on developing their abilities to think through things themselves from first principles, and creativity.

And before anyone says that these are drones from Asia that only know how to take tests, remember that the sample consists of Asian Americans. Not international students. Moreover, Harvard interviewers themselves gave Asian applicants scores that were at least as high as white applicants. It was only this backroom personality score that was systematically bringing down Asian Americans.
Its honestly disgraceful. There is a lot of talk in the Econ community concerning discrimination against women and minorities, even when the data and evidence is often not there at times. However, in a case where the data so clearly screams discrimination, you have people like Card sell out and still deny that Asian Americans are being shafted.

6 months ago # QUOTE 18 Dolphin 0 Shark !
Economist
73c5

Nobody cares. Seriously Asian-American bros, I like you, but this isn't some Confucian epistocracy, and no one is impressed by hyper-successful people yelling about racism.

6 months ago # QUOTE 2 Dolphin 23 Shark !
Economist
48f0

Ok, so the Asian-American guy with a 1600 and eight 5s on APs gets rejected from HYP

he has to go to Penn CAS/Chicago/Duke/Brown/Cornell/Northwestern/Vanderbilt or similar

fast forward twenty years and he's a consultant, doctor, dentist, lawyer, some other white-color office worker and will have almost exactly the same result as if he went to HYP (a few PE/IB guys are outliers)

6 months ago # QUOTE 3 Dolphin 12 Shark !
Economist
68ff

Nobody cares. Seriously Asian-American bros, I like you, but this isn't some Confucian epistocracy, and no one is impressed by hyper-successful people yelling about racism.

What about unsuccessful people yelling about racism?

Personally, I couldn't care less if Harvard discriminates against asians (although then of course I'd expect all federal funding to be revoked). If Harvard just straight up said we're putting a quota on asians because there are too many of them, I'd respect them more.
It's the duplicity and hypocrisy that's disgusting. This case crystallizes everything that is wrong with leftist ideology as currently practiced in the US.

6 months ago # QUOTE 22 Dolphin 1 Shark !
Economist
b7fb

But they're raised by China parents who train their children as they've been trained themselves: to memorize material and focus on becoming proficient at passing exams, rather than on developing their abilities to think through things themselves from first principles, and creativity.

Are these China parents also raising their kids to get either the highest or 2nd highest ratings on

-extracurriculars
-3 letters of recommendation
-and alumni interviews?

I love how racists, fine people from both sides of the aisle, will go to their graves defending the outdated stereotype of the boring Asian kid who can't do anything except memorize because tiger mommy said so.

6 months ago # QUOTE 20 Dolphin 1 Shark !
Economist
b7d2

A great SAT performance and good piano abilities do not lead to a top performance later in their life.
I have no connection with Harvard, and I actually live in Europe. I actually think there is an over emphasis on the importance of Harvard and more democratic systems like the German ones are better.

And before anyone says that these are drones from Asia that only know how to take tests, remember that the sample consists of Asian Americans. Not international students. Moreover, Harvard interviewers themselves gave Asian applicants scores that were at least as high as white applicants. It was only this backroom personality score that was systematically bringing down Asian Americans.
Its honestly disgraceful. There is a lot of talk in the Econ community concerning discrimination against women and minorities, even when the data and evidence is often not there at times. However, in a case where the data so clearly screams discrimination, you have people like Card sell out and still deny that Asian Americans are being shafted.

I would agree with your claim, but this is somewhat of a strawman argument. Nobody here is claiming that test scores are strongly correlated with future performance (although I suspect that the correlation is positive, but not statistically that significant). Rather, we are claiming that *given* the current standards of admissions (test scores, grades, extra currics, interviews), Asian Americans are not being treated fairly and schools like Harvard are not being transparent about admissions to a point where discrimination is a likely factor.

6 months ago # QUOTE 15 Dolphin 0 Shark !
Economist
68ff

Ok, so the Asian-American guy with a 1600 and eight 5s on APs gets rejected from HYP
he has to go to Penn CAS/Chicago/Duke/Brown/Cornell/Northwestern/Vanderbilt or similar
fast forward twenty years and he's a consultant, doctor, dentist, lawyer, some other white-color office worker and will have almost exactly the same result as if he went to HYP (a few PE/IB guys are outliers)

I agree that the practical implications for any given asian-american student are minor, and gifted people will go onto do great things regardless of whether they attend HYP. But that's not the point. Whether blacks sit in the back of the bus or in the front, or whether they share water fountains with whites has little practical importance. The principle is what matters.

6 months ago # QUOTE 19 Dolphin 1 Shark !
Economist
9600

I agree, it's disgusting for two reasons:
1. it's fundamentally unfair and racist
2. they're being huge hypo\crites about it.

Nobody cares. Seriously Asian-American bros, I like you, but this isn't some Confucian epistocracy, and no one is impressed by hyper-successful people yelling about racism.

What about unsuccessful people yelling about racism?
Personally, I couldn't care less if Harvard discriminates against asians (although then of course I'd expect all federal funding to be revoked). If Harvard just straight up said we're putting a quota on asians because there are too many of them, I'd respect them more.
It's the duplicity and hypocrisy that's disgusting. This case crystallizes everything that is wrong with leftist ideology as currently practiced in the US.

6 months ago # QUOTE 12 Dolphin 0 Shark !
Economist
91a4

But they're raised by China parents who train their children as they've been trained themselves: to memorize material and focus on becoming proficient at passing exams, rather than on developing their abilities to think through things themselves from first principles, and creativity.

So let me get this straight:

--Asian: Proficient at passing exams ==> No creativity and just rote memorization.
--Non-Asian: Cannot score high at exams ==> Must have thought things through from "first principles" and "creativity".

If that's the case, instead of enrolling the top SAT scorers, enroll everybody at the bottom? Universities surely appreciate these "deep thinkers", no? But oh wait, that would piss off the white high exam scorers (which highly correlate with having rich white parents)?

-Asian bro disgusted at the double standards

6 months ago # QUOTE 26 Dolphin 1 Shark !
Economist
2e18

Do you believe that Ivy schools (who crate the leaders of tomorrow), will be consisted mostly of Asians, just because they do better at standardized tests? Think about it. Plus, they are private schools and can admit whomever they want.

6 months ago # QUOTE 1 Dolphin 2 Shark !
Economist
9600

Liberal Left:

Racism in all forms is wrong, but we endorse racism towards the Asian Americans.
They're just too successful financially and academically and that makes them privileged in our eyes,
They also invalidate a lot of our arguments regarding society's perpetual oppression of certain groups of people.
We must bring them down to our level one way or another.

But they're raised by China parents who train their children as they've been trained themselves: to memorize material and focus on becoming proficient at passing exams, rather than on developing their abilities to think through things themselves from first principles, and creativity.

So let me get this straight:
--Asian: Proficient at passing exams ==> No creativity and just rote memorization.
--Non-Asian: Cannot score high at exams ==> Must have thought things through from "first principles" and "creativity".
If that's the case, instead of enrolling the top SAT scorers, enroll everybody at the bottom? Universities surely appreciate these "deep thinkers", no? But oh wait, that would piss off the white high exam scorers (which highly correlate with having rich white parents)?
-Asian bro disgusted at the double standards

6 months ago # QUOTE 8 Dolphin 1 Shark !

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Peter Arcidiacono Harvard Asian discrimination paper out

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