Poelvoorde: what a drama queen. Thanks to this stunt not only is he fired, but made himself unhirable anywhere. Serves him right.
Prof fired for refusing to complete two diversity and antibias training modules
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No one said it was worse than the Cultural Revolution. But the similarities are there. This guy may have been doing some online training. Don't exactly know or care. But there are those of us who are being forced to endure what seems eerily like a struggle session. And while this guy may have been tenured. A lot of us are not.
Yes, the training is probably pointless at best.
Yes, colleges should tread more lightly around political or controversial issues.
But the posts about this being worse than the Cultural Revolution are completely ignorant of history. You would not say anything like that if you had the first clue about the Cultural Revolution. -
Yes, the training is probably pointless at best.
Yes, colleges should tread more lightly around political or controversial issues.
But the posts about this being worse than the Cultural Revolution are completely ignorant of history. You would not say anything like that if you had the first clue about the Cultural Revolution.^What a condescending critique of a straw man.
Training isn't pointless, it is divisive, counterproductive and its intention is to humiliate.
Colleges shouldn't indoctrinate anyone at all.
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Yes, the training is probably pointless at best.
Yes, colleges should tread more lightly around political or controversial issues.
But the posts about this being worse than the Cultural Revolution are completely ignorant of history. You would not say anything like that if you had the first clue about the Cultural Revolution.^What a condescending critique of a straw man.
Training isn't pointless, it is divisive, counterproductive and its intention is to humiliate.
Colleges shouldn't indoctrinate anyone at all.The louder you protest the more convincing the case for basic training in human etiquette becomes.
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I didn't rebut anything you said? Sure I did. I gave the example of Rosa Parks who did not "accept the consequences" but tried to fight those consequences in court. My example wasn't that she served jail time but that she contested the verdict that gave her jail time.
No, you didn't. You misunderstood what I meant by "accept the consequences," even after I clarified it for you. "Accept the consequences" doesn't mean they accepted the charges (or the verdict). It meant they accepted jail time and they accepted that they would have to argue their cases in court.
Sheesh.That isn't what most people mean by "accept the consequences." Most people I hear use that phrase mean that they should meekly go off to jail or whatever.
Under your rather weak definition, what meaning does "accepting the consequences" have?
What is the alternative to accepting the consequences?
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Yes, the training is probably pointless at best.
Yes, colleges should tread more lightly around political or controversial issues.
But the posts about this being worse than the Cultural Revolution are completely ignorant of history. You would not say anything like that if you had the first clue about the Cultural Revolution.^What a condescending critique of a straw man.
Training isn't pointless, it is divisive, counterproductive and its intention is to humiliate.
Colleges shouldn't indoctrinate anyone at all.The louder you protest the more convincing the case for basic training in human etiquette becomes.
Oh, you can hear volume on written comments over the internet? How talented you must be!
You don't like me pointing out that the indoctrination is divisive and wrong?
These aren't about etiquette. This isn't finishing school. They are telling you how to think and view the world.
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What's your solution? Prevent private enterprises from training their employees on their business's anti-discriminatory values? Give every employee sufficient workers' rights so that they can refuse anti-discrimination training without being terminated?No one’s got a solution to this very pressing problem of being ordered to watch a couple videos on how not to expose your employer to lawsuits by breaking discrimination laws?
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What is the alternative to accepting the consequences?
What I originally responded to: the utterly wrong idea that civil disobedience is nothing more than "Choosing an action based on principle, and carefully explaining your position."
When you engage in actual civil disobedience, you must accept (as both MLK and Rosa Parks did) that you might face consequences for your protest, such as jail time. You can't just tell the arresting officer, "Hey, I'm just carefully explaining my position; you have no right to arrest me, back the f off!"
Your on-the-spectrum "rebuttal" is that both of them contested the charges, which meant they didn't "accept the consequences." So you "rebutted" something I never argued.
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I think a few things can be true. I think he can oppose it for any reason and the protections of tenure should mean that those reasons are immaterial.
legally, in this case, he’s well within his rights and duties to not do the training.
It’s pretty clear that he’s being a child about all of this and it’s not born out of any particularly coherent claims of academic freedom or moral opposition . However, that’s immaterial to the legal merits of his case.
We don't have anti discrimination training like this because the psych department went to the mat against it. I mean, that's a coherent argument and they have legitimate scientific and moral reasons to oppose these trainings (they make racist sentiments WORSE, actually). I'm not saying he's saying that, but it's a worthy thing to fight against if you have a reasonable position. This guy is just being a problem child, but that's academia.
So, it is reasonable to oppose it bc it makes raysism worse -- correct -- but it is unreasonable to oppose it bc it is wrong for universities and corporations to try to politically indoctrinate their employees?
People who think that coerced indoctrination is wrong are "problem children?"
What a putz. -
I think a few things can be true. I think he can oppose it for any reason and the protections of tenure should mean that those reasons are immaterial.
legally, in this case, he’s well within his rights and duties to not do the training.
>That all depends on what’s in his contract. My guess is that they can can him for insubordination. What a petty dispute on both sides. Who goes to war over something so trivial?
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People with principle. This is not China (yet).
I think a few things can be true. I think he can oppose it for any reason and the protections of tenure should mean that those reasons are immaterial.
legally, in this case, he’s well within his rights and duties to not do the training.
>That all depends on what’s in his contract. My guess is that they can can him for insubordination. What a petty dispute on both sides. Who goes to war over something so trivial?
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In the end, it comes back to my first comment in this thread.
Progressives have no idea about how other find what they hold as some kind of "self-evident truth" is actually seem no as truth but as illogical theories.This poster here (4f8d) pretends to not like those theories, but then:
But this guy apparently doesn't have coalition-building skills, much less a sense of the historical moment:
Q: Grampa, what did you do to help the movement back in 2020, when people were rising up against extrajudicial police mur/ders?
A: I refused to watch a short video about how not to discriminate against minorities and got myself fired over it.We all know this is not going to be a "short video about treating others fairly".
4f8d likes this kind of thing, so s/he can't see why others might dislike it. So, s/he tries to defend by minimizing it,
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In the end, it comes back to my first comment in this thread.
Progressives have no idea about how other find what they hold as some kind of "self-evident truth" is actually seem no as truth but as illogical theories.
This poster here (4f8d) pretends to not like those theories, but then:But this guy apparently doesn't have coalition-building skills, much less a sense of the historical moment:
Q: Grampa, what did you do to help the movement back in 2020, when people were rising up against extrajudicial police mur/ders?
A: I refused to watch a short video about how not to discriminate against minorities and got myself fired over it.We all know this is not going to be a "short video about treating others fairly".
4f8d likes this kind of thing, so s/he can't see why others might dislike it. So, s/he tries to defend by minimizing it,Actually I hate this kind of training when it’s in person. You have no idea, never having had a job in the real world. But being asked to watch a video is much less annoying. I don’t even watch them; I just click through the MC items. Takes five minutes a year. That’s the great principle this guy is risking his job for—the right not to watch a short video whose contents he may not agree with, but he doesn’t really know because he hasn’t actually watched the video.
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Just like someone who loved Austrian economics maybe would say of a "Misesian indoctrination campaign": "this is just telling people to respect the freedom of others, just watch the Rothbard videos instead of making a fuss about it, this is not mature". Which obviously, those like 4f8d would not defend.
And while I'm far away from being an Austrian enthusiast, at least they are more logical than the CRT indoctrinators.
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Actually I hate this kind of training when it’s in person. You have no idea, never having had a job in the real world. But being asked to watch a video is much less annoying. I don’t even watch them; I just click through the MC items. Takes five minutes a year. That’s the great principle this guy is risking his job for—the right not to watch a short video whose contents he may not agree with, but he doesn’t really know because he hasn’t actually watched the video.
You are not fooling anyone. You just want to stop criticism of this BS.
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Your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather pwned the French at Azincourt with his longbow
Your great-great-great-great grandfather pwned the Redcoats at Lexington with his musket
Your great-great grandfather pwned the Rebs at Appomattox with his rifle
Your grandfather pwned the N.azis at Omaha Beach with his machine gun
You pwn the l.ibs by refusing to take a diversity and antibias training moduleCross out this last and substitute:
You bend over and take a diversity and antibias training module
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No, I’d prefer not to have to do the training myself. It’s infantilizing and insulting. I completely identify with this Converse prof’s motivation. But he’s a f0/0l to die on this hill. It’s five minutes a year max, and I don’t even watch them!
And if it's in-person "training" in a classroom with other faculty, it's an excellent opportunity to mock the training by asking both insulting and inane questions.