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• 9 months - 98 posts - Latest - RSS
• Thread: 279 Goods vs 93 No Goods

1. Economist
   4dc4
   

   There are two different parts to your post.
   The financial part and the culture wars part.
   On the financial part, you are correct, you do not go to academia to make money.
   On the culture wars part I'm afraid you spent too much time on the Internet. You have a freedom to do, think, and communicate in academia that you will not find anywhere else.
   - old timer

   lmaoo

   "You have a freedom to do, think, and communicate in academia that you will not find anywhere else. "

   Lmao again, thanks for the laughs this early gramps

   9 months ago # QUOTE 1 Volod 6 Vlad !

2. Economist
   636c
   

   lmaoo
   "You have a freedom to do, think, and communicate in academia that you will not find anywhere else. "
   Lmao again, thanks for the laughs this early gramps

   I'm sure you spend a lot of time reading stories online about culture wars. I am a white man in academia since almost 20 years now.

   - No one has ever told me what I should do research about
   - No one has ever told me what I should put in my lectures
   - The same holds for all of my colleagues. I have never met anyone in real life who had his/her academic freedom curtailed

   None of my friends in the corporate sector has anything close to that. Most earn much more than me though, I think's it's a fair price to pay.

   Sure, there is a lot of talk, and some action, to increase diversity in staff, or to be more careful about understanding the background of our students. The truth is that at the moment more than 80% of our full prof in econ are white males.

   9 months ago # QUOTE 18 Volod 6 Vlad !

3. Economist
   a8e6
   

   I dunno about the states, but the influence of the culture war in UK academia is way overblown.

   9 months ago # QUOTE 3 Volod 0 Vlad !

4. Economist
   13cc
   

   all that wokeness stuff applies to non academic jobs too

   9 months ago # QUOTE 5 Volod 0 Vlad !

5. Economist
   636c
   

   yeah, sorry to be long, I am generally indifferent to those culture wars topics and I think freedom of speech is extremely important.

   But, at this point, it is also important that people actually in academia testify about what happens in real life. These debates about "silencing" academics have always existed, but our profession attracts people who value their freedom a lot and have always been pretty good at defending it. We are however very bad at public relations, meaning that media savvy people have a lot more visibility.

   I don't have twitter. Most of my colleagues either don't have it or just use it for self promotion. Our debates are in research papers. They are boring to the layperson. But they are essential to anyone who still care, even a little bit, about seeking the truth.

   9 months ago # QUOTE 7 Volod 0 Vlad !

6. Economist
   5951
   

   Go ahead and work as a code monkey 10 hours a day surrounded by H1B paj.eets. I will take my chill small town deadwood life

   9 months ago # QUOTE 3 Volod 2 Vlad !

7. Economist
   8b43
   

   You seem like a genuine Academic.

   What OP is trying to say is what you describe is what Academia was always like for years. And now this is changing very fast and dramatically.

   From 80% White Male it is going to go to 50% White Male. And with the woke mob perennially standing outside.

   Point is you make a decision based on where a trend is going. OP's point is that ten years from some white males will regret entering Academia.

   I think his point applies to the folks at borderline. More folks at the edge are going to get tenure rejections. Those who are exceptional might not have to change their decision much just wonder if the world of ACademia is worth going for.

   yeah, sorry to be long, I am generally indifferent to those culture wars topics and I think freedom of speech is extremely important.
   But, at this point, it is also important that people actually in academia testify about what happens in real life. These debates about "silencing" academics have always existed, but our profession attracts people who value their freedom a lot and have always been pretty good at defending it. We are however very bad at public relations, meaning that media savvy people have a lot more visibility.
   I don't have twitter. Most of my colleagues either don't have it or just use it for self promotion. Our debates are in research papers. They are boring to the layperson. But they are essential to anyone who still care, even a little bit, about seeking the truth.

   9 months ago # QUOTE 2 Volod 1 Vlad !

8. Economist
   2242
   

   I'm sure you spend a lot of time reading stories online about culture wars. I am a white man in academia since almost 20 years now.
   - No one has ever told me what I should do research about
   - No one has ever told me what I should put in my lectures
   - The same holds for all of my colleagues. I have never met anyone in real life who had his/her academic freedom curtailed

   That is because you are on the left. I am not. My university told me informally but "from the top" that I should stop talking politics anywhere near students, or they would start looking for reasons to fire me. Many of my right academic friends had similar experiences. By now there are also public examples of people being fired for expressing right wing views.

   9 months ago # QUOTE 6 Volod 6 Vlad !

9. Economist
   636c
   

   You seem like a genuine Academic.
   What OP is trying to say is what you describe is what Academia was always like for years. And now this is changing very fast and dramatically.
   From 80% White Male it is going to go to 50% White Male. And with the woke mob perennially standing outside.
   Point is you make a decision based on where a trend is going. OP's point is that ten years from some white males will regret entering Academia.
   I think his point applies to the folks at borderline. More folks at the edge are going to get tenure rejections. Those who are exceptional might not have to change their decision much just wonder if the world of ACademia is worth going for.

   It may or may not be true but most people who started a PhD with a carreer plan did not end up in academia. There is so much uncertainty in the process, so much luck, so much about taste also. It makes little sense to me to focus on some ethnic/gender background to make a decision. Do what you like, there is always a way out of academia, there are very few ways back.

   That is because you are on the left. I am not. My university told me informally but "from the top" that I should stop talking politics anywhere near students, or they would start looking for reasons to fire me. Many of my right academic friends had similar experiences. By now there are also public examples of people being fired for expressing right wing views.

   I am an economist, I believe in free markets, and in solid empirical evidence. This means that, in my university, as in most university, I am definitely not perceived as being on the left.

   But this is not even the point here. I obviously do not talk about politics to student, unless it is in my area of expertise. I think it is essential that my students have no idea who I vote for or what are my opinions. I just want to give them the tools to see the world like an economist. Only when you understand the basics of statistics and of cost-benefit analysis can you start focusing about "opinions." Before that, you may have an opinion but still seek counter productive remedies to the problems you identify for instance.

   9 months ago # QUOTE 10 Volod 0 Vlad !

10. Economist
    6082
    

    What should we aim for then as current PhD students? Public institutions?

    9 months ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 1 Vlad !

11. Economist
    4dc4
    

    lmaoo
    "You have a freedom to do, think, and communicate in academia that you will not find anywhere else. "
    Lmao again, thanks for the laughs this early gramps

    I'm sure you spend a lot of time reading stories online about culture wars. I am a white man in academia since almost 20 years now.
    - No one has ever told me what I should do research about
    - No one has ever told me what I should put in my lectures
    - The same holds for all of my colleagues. I have never met anyone in real life who had his/her academic freedom curtailed
    None of my friends in the corporate sector has anything close to that. Most earn much more than me though, I think's it's a fair price to pay.
    Sure, there is a lot of talk, and some action, to increase diversity in staff, or to be more careful about understanding the background of our students. The truth is that at the moment more than 80% of our full prof in econ are white males.

    I don't disagree with what you're saying nor do I think you're lying.

    The thing is, in my opinion, you're
    mistaking levels vs slope/trend.
    I am most worried about the trend.

    If you told someone 5 years ago that you would see: all the major institutions in the US saying they're systemic r4cist, diversity trainings that resemble, in principle at least, struggle sessions, Nature saying they need to "change the systems of science" to address systemic r4cism, HS teachers o saying they think math is r4cist, Yale PhD student with statistics BS from Chicago saying that body mass index is discriminatory and that you can be healthy at any size winning praise from a lot of big names in the profession, you would surely call this persons obsessed with cure wars, reactionary, conservative etc.
    Well here we are

    9 months ago # QUOTE 9 Volod 4 Vlad !

12. Economist
    8b43
    

    Overall I think if you are a strong right wing Conservative it may be better to stay out of Academia and go where most of your Bro Group are headed to which is industry.

    For those on the left, you sort of agree with what is going on anyway to some extent.

    9 months ago # QUOTE 2 Volod 0 Vlad !

13. Economist
    839b
    

    lmaoo
    "You have a freedom to do, think, and communicate in academia that you will not find anywhere else. "
    Lmao again, thanks for the laughs this early gramps

    I'm sure you spend a lot of time reading stories online about culture wars. I am a white man in academia since almost 20 years now.
    - No one has ever told me what I should do research about
    - No one has ever told me what I should put in my lectures
    - The same holds for all of my colleagues. I have never met anyone in real life who had his/her academic freedom curtailed
    None of my friends in the corporate sector has anything close to that. Most earn much more than me though, I think's it's a fair price to pay.
    Sure, there is a lot of talk, and some action, to increase diversity in staff, or to be more careful about understanding the background of our students. The truth is that at the moment more than 80% of our full prof in econ are white males.

    None of my friends were silenced, so the issue doesn't exist and you are just over exaggerating, OP!!

    Ljl, I bet you are a regmonkey

    9 months ago # QUOTE 2 Volod 5 Vlad !

14. Economist
    6e23
    

    lmaoo
    "You have a freedom to do, think, and communicate in academia that you will not find anywhere else. "
    Lmao again, thanks for the laughs this early gramps

    I'm sure you spend a lot of time reading stories online about culture wars. I am a white man in academia since almost 20 years now.
    - No one has ever told me what I should do research about
    - No one has ever told me what I should put in my lectures
    - The same holds for all of my colleagues. I have never met anyone in real life who had his/her academic freedom curtailed
    None of my friends in the corporate sector has anything close to that. Most earn much more than me though, I think's it's a fair price to pay.
    Sure, there is a lot of talk, and some action, to increase diversity in staff, or to be more careful about understanding the background of our students. The truth is that at the moment more than 80% of our full prof in econ are white males.

    That is categorically wrong.

    9 months ago # QUOTE 2 Volod 6 Vlad !

15. Economist
    dde5
    

    I truly believe that we must install AFFIRMATIVE ACTION when accepting papers for publication.
    We must be more inclusive and have more papers by BIPOC and URM published in all levels, including in QJE, AER, JF, RFS, ManSci etc etc.

    How dare you citing two top 5 journals along some rubbish non-econ journals?

    9 months ago # QUOTE 1 Volod 2 Vlad !

16. Economist
    e436
    

    op post is 100% spot on. also, as a result of this phd is not particularly valued anywhere else, and the best ugrads don't do phd anymore and go straight to industry.

    -Data scientists earn less than SWEs
    -600k is obviously for Tier 1 companies like Google, Facebook, Apple, Amazon etc.
    -Look at Google stock price. Doubled in 1 year. Other tech giants have similar gains. SWEs get stock bonus, restricted stock units and stock refreshers so they benefit immensely from stock appreciation

    well only fb and aapl pay that much, and only at staff level. tons of competition from h1b as well.

    9 months ago # QUOTE 2 Volod 1 Vlad !

17. Economist
    e436
    

    HF/trading is very tough these days, most people get fired in a few years, even vhrm. PE has high pay and is stable but long hours.

    9 months ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !

18. Economist
    4975
    

    Is this true?
    >Software engineers making absolute bank. You can make >600k TC
    Data scientists at FAANG don't earn that much the last time I checked.

    -Data scientists earn less than SWEs
    -600k is obviously for Tier 1 companies like Google, Facebook, Apple, Amazon etc.
    -Look at Google stock price. Doubled in 1 year. Other tech giants have similar gains. SWEs get stock bonus, restricted stock units and stock refreshers so they benefit immensely from stock appreciation

    Unless you think Google doubles every year, this growth is a one-off event because of the insānity of the current markets, not something to factor in your TC. But the post is mostly accurate other than that: tech comp is very good, even if far from 600k.

    9 months ago # QUOTE 4 Volod 1 Vlad !

19. Economist
    6e1c
    

    Academia is a total joke, but...

    IB does not pay much. It is actually slowly dying.
    Getting into HF requires a lot of luck (even if you are a genius).
    For IT getting 600K USD is close to impossible. Just check the avg salaries on Glassdoor

    9 months ago # QUOTE 3 Volod 0 Vlad !

20. Economist
    ec25
    

    Is this true?
    >Software engineers making absolute bank. You can make >600k TC
    Data scientists at FAANG don't earn that much the last time I checked.

    DS and SWE pay are similar (check apple and fb)

    5 years of experience can usually get you to L4 SWE. TC is around 300k to 350k, half of it are RSUs. So if you are already at this level pre-covid, and your company's stock doubles in the past year, you can make around 500k.

    To hit 600k, you need to be L5 precovid (possible if you are really good), or your company's stock needs to more than triple during the past year (e.g., pinterest).

    At any rate, if you are a sharp person with good quantitative skills, your opportunity cost of staying in academia is bigger than you think.

    9 months ago # QUOTE 8 Volod 1 Vlad !

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