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• 1 year - 61 posts - Latest - RSS
• Thread: 304 Goods vs 58 No Goods

1. Economist
   58c9
   

   Or fire them and hire another. Plenty of people want those jobs. No need to keep a Reytard around

   First post is spot on. I'd add: give a holiday gift of cash to your department admin. First ask around a bit if there's a department cash gift you contribute to instead. The admin can help in ways you don't yet anticipate, like the copier breaks right when you really need it, or can blow you off. It's a good investment, especially since the admin is very aware of the pay difference between the two of you.

   are you serious?

   This is 100% serious: treat your secretaries like goddesses. It will make your life so much easier in ways you cannot yet fathom.

   1 year ago # QUOTE 2 Volod 2 Vlad !

2. Economist
   fba5
   

   You don’t have that kind of power as an AP

   Or fire them and hire another. Plenty of people want those jobs. No need to keep a Reytard around

   First post is spot on. I'd add: give a holiday gift of cash to your department admin. First ask around a bit if there's a department cash gift you contribute to instead. The admin can help in ways you don't yet anticipate, like the copier breaks right when you really need it, or can blow you off. It's a good investment, especially since the admin is very aware of the pay difference between the two of you.

   are you serious?

   This is 100% serious: treat your secretaries like goddesses. It will make your life so much easier in ways you cannot yet fathom.
   

   1 year ago # QUOTE 2 Volod 0 Vlad !

3. Economist
   db4e
   

   Some good advice...for a mouse!
   I will speak my mind at meetings.
   If someone disagrees, forget them...as long as I am publishing

   1 year ago # QUOTE 3 Volod 2 Vlad !

4. Economist
   a660
   

   You forgot the little-known but often-violated "don't fieck the undergrads". More than once I've seen this get some into trouble.

   If the undergrads rate you highly, the Dean rates you highly.

   1 year ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !

5. Economist
   bcbf
   

   do you want to get tenured in a place where you have no opinions and you have to bribe the admins?

   Don’t argue or get into beefs with *anyone* — student, staff, admin, off-campus civilian, Twitter tr00l — anyone at all. Never say anything negative about anyone or anything. Best to have no opinions at all. If someone asks your opinion on campus governance or anything remotely controversial, excuse yourself by saying you have an urgent bathroom need.
   Your goal should be to make sure everyone loves you or at least does not dislike you. You can make enemies after tenure if you still feel the need.

   This is great advice yet exactly why academia is pathetic and dying. “Best to have no opinions at all”, meanwhile job description is to advance knowledge

   1 year ago # QUOTE 2 Volod 1 Vlad !

6. Economist
   86bc
   

   The Dean is likely already replaced by the time you're up for tenure.

   1 year ago # QUOTE 6 Volod 0 Vlad !

7. Economist
   0c8f
   

   do you want to get tenured in a place where you have no opinions and you have to bribe the admins?

   Don’t argue or get into beefs with *anyone* — student, staff, admin, off-campus civilian, Twitter tr00l — anyone at all. Never say anything negative about anyone or anything. Best to have no opinions at all. If someone asks your opinion on campus governance or anything remotely controversial, excuse yourself by saying you have an urgent bathroom need.
   Your goal should be to make sure everyone loves you or at least does not dislike you. You can make enemies after tenure if you still feel the need.

   This is great advice yet exactly why academia is pathetic and dying. “Best to have no opinions at all”, meanwhile job description is to advance knowledge

   Admins (including secretaries) are the most powerful people on campus at every university and at every level of VHRM/HRM/etc.

   1 year ago # QUOTE 3 Volod 1 Vlad !

8. Economist
   2de7
   

   OP, can you provide further insight into where I can look for a microgrant like you described previously? Preferably someone willing to support crime/health/education/demography research?

   1 year ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !

9. Economist
   64d6
   

   I strongly disagree. I think you are pathe-tic, kneeling down begging for a job.

   My suggestion is to keep improving your human capital, marketable skills, and mobility.

   I always think that the school should be grateful that I'm willing to accept the meager salary and teach there, not the other way round.

   1 year ago # QUOTE 3 Volod 1 Vlad !

10. Economist
    bcbf
    

    I strongly disagree. I think you are pathe-tic, kneeling down begging for a job.
    My suggestion is to keep improving your human capital, marketable skills, and mobility.
    I always think that the school should be grateful that I'm willing to accept the meager salary and teach there, not the other way round.

    YES!

    1 year ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !

11. Economist
    137a
    

    Generally good advice from OP though that is not that only way. Here is my advice, as someone who was tenured a couple years ago:

    1) Your own department's opinion matters, but your reputation in the field matters much more. If David Card says in the outside letter at tenure time that you are well known and respected, you will not be turned down at your T100 place.

    2) Most of what matters for tenure is *not* written down anywhere. The most obvious place to look is at the CVs of every recent AP who has gone up or could have gone up. You should be able to intuit the bar. If you are in a field that is easier to hire in, the bar is higher. If you are a white or Asian man, it generally is also higher (does anyone deny this?). If you are a woman, you should however be careful that you are doing more than just work written with seniors (the data in HS is accurate) and also that some types of applied micro are seen quite negatively by some of the old guard.

    3) Some departments have firm and strange lists of what journals "count". Make sure you know this. Eg, in a business school, you may be better off publishing in an FT ranked journal you have never heard of than in a much better econ field journal.

    4) Your teaching and service needs to be acceptable. Beyond that, you should obviously still care, but it won't help your tenure case. Same with public writing, mentoring, etc.

    5) Having a consistent set of papers matters most because you will need 8-12 prominent outsiders to write letters on your behalf. Those letters basically all need to be strong. For this reason, you have to go to conferences, especially small field conferences. Things like AEA are just for fun - the 30 person conferences are where you get to know the letter writers.

    6) Every department has long running feuds between seniors that you won't know about. It is correct that you don't want to be in the middle. You do want a champion in the department. Best if this person is the chair. They will give you convenient teaching schedules and limited burden of service.

    7) Being an AP is very similar to bring a graduate student except you need to be more productive and you have more money. Also, like in grad school, you will find that time goes by very quickly. You should aim to have 10 papers, minimum, submitted when you go up, since even then you would be lucky to have seven pubs. That is a lot of writing!

    8) You won't know anything about the publication process. Ask for help. I still don't know all the tricks. I still waste too much time revising between submissions. I still don't know which editors in my field are the best fits. It is hard!

    9) The job is actually amazing and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You are literally paid to try to understand the answer to whatever social science question you find most interesting, with no one telling you when to work, or where. And the pay in many cases makes you rich (I saved a half million pre tenure without even trying).

    1 year ago # QUOTE 18 Volod 2 Vlad !

12. Economist
    4701
    

    Generally good advice from OP though that is not that only way. Here is my advice, as someone who was tenured a couple years ago:
    1) Your own department's opinion matters, but your reputation in the field matters much more. If David Card says in the outside letter at tenure time that you are well known and respected, you will not be turned down at your T100 place.
    2) Most of what matters for tenure is *not* written down anywhere. The most obvious place to look is at the CVs of every recent AP who has gone up or could have gone up. You should be able to intuit the bar. If you are in a field that is easier to hire in, the bar is higher. If you are a white or Asian man, it generally is also higher (does anyone deny this?). If you are a woman, you should however be careful that you are doing more than just work written with seniors (the data in HS is accurate) and also that some types of applied micro are seen quite negatively by some of the old guard.
    3) Some departments have firm and strange lists of what journals "count". Make sure you know this. Eg, in a business school, you may be better off publishing in an FT ranked journal you have never heard of than in a much better econ field journal.
    4) Your teaching and service needs to be acceptable. Beyond that, you should obviously still care, but it won't help your tenure case. Same with public writing, mentoring, etc.
    5) Having a consistent set of papers matters most because you will need 8-12 prominent outsiders to write letters on your behalf. Those letters basically all need to be strong. For this reason, you have to go to conferences, especially small field conferences. Things like AEA are just for fun - the 30 person conferences are where you get to know the letter writers.
    6) Every department has long running feuds between seniors that you won't know about. It is correct that you don't want to be in the middle. You do want a champion in the department. Best if this person is the chair. They will give you convenient teaching schedules and limited burden of service.
    7) Being an AP is very similar to bring a graduate student except you need to be more productive and you have more money. Also, like in grad school, you will find that time goes by very quickly. You should aim to have 10 papers, minimum, submitted when you go up, since even then you would be lucky to have seven pubs. That is a lot of writing!
    8) You won't know anything about the publication process. Ask for help. I still don't know all the tricks. I still waste too much time revising between submissions. I still don't know which editors in my field are the best fits. It is hard!
    9) The job is actually amazing and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You are literally paid to try to understand the answer to whatever social science question you find most interesting, with no one telling you when to work, or where. And the pay in many cases makes you rich (I saved a half million pre tenure without even trying).

    This could be the best post the past 3 years. No, this is the best post of the past 3 years

    1 year ago # QUOTE 6 Volod 2 Vlad !

13. Economist
    b2c3
    

    This thread renews my faith in EJMR.

    1 year ago # QUOTE 6 Volod 0 Vlad !

14. Economist
    1a38
    

    This thread renews my faith in EJMR.

    then you probably shouldn't look at the two threads I just put out there, hehe

    1 year ago # QUOTE 1 Volod 0 Vlad !

15. Economist
    8a46
    

    I disagree with the advice to be a shy mouse. Sure, don't be rude. But if you have intelligent things to say in department meetings, say them. Just don't spout off or say things which you can't persuasively argue for.

    1 year ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 1 Vlad !

16. Economist
    7c6a
    

    This is mostly good advice. But the person who matters most at first is whoever selects your promotion committee. Then it's the chair of this committee. If they don't like you, they can easily select letter writers known to be harsh. And vice versa.

    1 year ago # QUOTE 2 Volod 0 Vlad !

17. Economist
    7c6a
    

    I disagree with the advice to be a shy mouse. Sure, don't be rude. But if you have intelligent things to say in department meetings, say them. Just don't spout off or say things which you can't persuasively argue for.

    Agree. We actually consider it as a plus; shows your engagement and that you care. Just don't explain to us how research works...

    1 year ago # QUOTE 1 Volod 0 Vlad !

18. Economist
    44b1
    

    Suppose the minimum tenure expectations in my department have been stated clearly to me when I was hired (both in terms of quantity and quality of pubs), and I'm on path to satisfy them. Do tenure letters matter for anything in this case? Should I still care about these 30-person conferences (which are usually very clubby) and about getting to know some of these seniors personally?

    1 year ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !

19. Economist
    a2b7
    

    You people are way overboard. Just recently tenured and never obsessed about many of the "big points" in this thread. But perhaps my department is just not as schizo as others.

    Adequate teaching and service.
    Publish adequate quality and quantity.
    Present every year at the important conferences.
    Bring in a couple grants.
    Be a good colleague.

    1 year ago # QUOTE 1 Volod 0 Vlad !

20. Economist
    965f
    

    I disagree with the advice to be a shy mouse. Sure, don't be rude. But if you have intelligent things to say in department meetings, say them. Just don't spout off or say things which you can't persuasively argue for.

    As an AP, you cannot know which statements will be controversial. It could be something completely innocuous-seeming that the seniors had a brawl over before you got there. Let the seniors handle governance; focus on research and teaching until you get tenure.

    1 year ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !

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