UK departments, how would you rate them? « Economics Job Market Rumors

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UK departments, how would you rate them?

Economist
ca43

The ranking from the last REF are pretty accurate and not much has changed.
See unit 18 of:
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/sites/default/files/Attachments/2014/12/17/g/o/l/sub-14-01.pdf
Ps some of you please can you GTFO and have your chat about the strength of u/g programmes elsewhere.

Jesus you are thick. More thick than a pig in a s**te.
Bristol top for impact? Rubbish.
Royal Holloway, Sussex, etc.? Rubbish.
The latest REF isn't worthy enough to wipe my ass.
The REF was PLAGUED by issues with regards to non submission. It is the LEAST accurate of research rankings and hence is being totally overhauled.
The Research Fortnight REF Power Ranking tries to correct for issues and is more accurate than the tripe THE came out with.
See: https://www.researchprofessional.com/media/pdf/UoA18_Economics.pdf
But generally, the 2008 RAE is more reflective of real quality compared to the 2014 REF.

Chill out mate, the points you make are footnotes at best. The rank correlation between various alternatives / power, REF2008 etc must be >0.8.

4 years ago # QUOTE 3 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
e145

Why would you rank them, is the question. In any case, PhD from anywhere else than LSE subjects you to UK AP misery, and 95 percent of research is just duck measuring, with no relevance or impact outside of the club you insist on calling "profession"

Take the 25 departments or so that will probably be submitted to REF. I'd say 90% of them have people who have top 5s and many top 10s and top fields. You will also see a low productivity tail in thise departments, but this hardly counts as duck measuring.

Cool story Bro. How many of those top 5 will be UK people data monkeying for their connections from top US schools or even US people having joint appointments with the UK places just for the REF? and also, since when is a top 5 publication automatically an indicator of impact outside the club?

4 years ago # QUOTE 2 Volod 1 Vlad !
Economist
5da6

I'd actually like to know about the 'rest'/'toilet'. How do the other Russell Group unis stack up?
York, Edinburgh, Manchester, Bristol, St Andrews, Leeds, etc.
Not asking about UG/PhD. Asking about research/work happening/influence.

St Andrews is in freefall.

4 years ago # QUOTE 1 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
7cef

In the UK, more than ever, you need to know at a given time what a department is good at. Local stars move literally all the time and departments are not big enough to be good at everything.

Once you know that, almost all "Russel group" + the usual suspects at the top are good enough to do decent research.

Also very important: get some information about local infighting. They often completely destroy departments in particular in business schools.

4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 1 Vlad !
Economist
7f3a

Excellent points!

In the UK, more than ever, you need to know at a given time what a department is good at. Local stars move literally all the time and departments are not big enough to be good at everything.
Once you know that, almost all "Russel group" + the usual suspects at the top are good enough to do decent research.
Also very important: get some information about local infighting. They often completely destroy departments in particular in business schools.

4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
c0c2

Excellent points!

In the UK, more than ever, you need to know at a given time what a department is good at. Local stars move literally all the time and departments are not big enough to be good at everything.
Once you know that, almost all "Russel group" + the usual suspects at the top are good enough to do decent research.
Also very important: get some information about local infighting. They often completely destroy departments in particular in business schools.

Important points. But can you give concrete examples of places and people? I mean, in how many departments can you say if X leaves department Z is screwed?

4 years ago # QUOTE 1 Volod 1 Vlad !
Economist
9aa5

Swansea is strong. Cardiff less so!

4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
6ff1

Here is the deal:
If you are serious about academia LSE is the only option.
Oxford is great for policy and private sector (this also applies to Cambridge but the brand name is not as good).

Remember this if applying for grad school.

4 years ago # QUOTE 3 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
7cef

I can only speak of topics I know a little, but I heard the same about other fields. When I identify a good place in the UK I typically have the name of one or two great people in mind. University of Nottingham is great in behavioural. Now remove Simon Gaechter and see what happens. University of Leicester was great in theory. Then no more Chris Wallace and Ludovic Renou (and a crazy dean) and it's out of the map. Edinburgh fantastic in theory, also Royal Holloway. But it's a small group again.

Turnover is absurd and REF-driven. See the Israeli commuting to Warwick or Eyal Winter who managed to be announced at the same time in Leicester and Lancaster while staying in Jerusalem.

Important points. But can you give concrete examples of places and people? I mean, in how many departments can you say if X leaves department Z is screwed?

4 years ago # QUOTE 5 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
b1fa

Cambridge placements over last 2 or 3 years between PHds and postdocs

Booth
Notre Dame x2
Simon Fraser
Nottingham
Oxford Postdoc
Montreal
Queen Mary
Penn State
Nova
IMF
Fed Board
World Bank
Bank of England

That's miles above Oxford or Warwick

4 years ago # QUOTE 1 Volod 2 Vlad !
Economist
1a10

Reminders:

Pasquale Schiraldi is a faculty member at LSE.

Stephan Seiler has a PhD from LSE.

LSE ---> s**thole.

4 years ago # QUOTE 7 Volod 2 Vlad !
Economist
3ab8

Except the very top UK departments, the rest do not have a spirit; what is good today may be trash tomorrow. This is because there is huge turnover. People just stay in a department for a couple of years and then they move elsewhere because they want to be promoted and grab the extra money or any other perks from the market.

- UK AP

4 years ago # QUOTE 6 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
7cef

Saif Al Islam Khadaffi graduated from LSE.

Reminders:
Pasquale Schiraldi is a faculty member at LSE.
Stephan Seiler has a PhD from LSE.
LSE ---> s**thole.

4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
3c4d

Swansea is strong. Cardiff less so!

Stop talking Lucy!

4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
c0c2

I can only speak of topics I know a little, but I heard the same about other fields. When I identify a good place in the UK I typically have the name of one or two great people in mind. University of Nottingham is great in behavioural. Now remove Simon Gaechter and see what happens. University of Leicester was great in theory. Then no more Chris Wallace and Ludovic Renou (and a crazy dean) and it's out of the map. Edinburgh fantastic in theory, also Royal Holloway. But it's a small group again.
Turnover is absurd and REF-driven. See the Israeli commuting to Warwick or Eyal Winter who managed to be announced at the same time in Leicester and Lancaster while staying in Jerusalem.

Important points. But can you give concrete examples of places and people? I mean, in how many departments can you say if X leaves department Z is screwed?

I wasn't talking about shameful REF appointments. But I agree with you it is ridiculous to see how REF panels continue to accept this and do nothing serious about it. The Eyal Winter case is quite telling: he emailed many heads of departments to essentially sell his outputs to the best bidder (and I know this for a fact). And the sad thing is that we know that departments like Surrey, Southampton, York, etc., have been buying their REFs for years. This is what Glasgow are trying to do now too. These places should be openly shamed. But RES, just like AEA on other matters, turns a blind eye on these things not to disturb the status quo.

4 years ago # QUOTE 4 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
d2b6

I can only speak of topics I know a little, but I heard the same about other fields. When I identify a good place in the UK I typically have the name of one or two great people in mind. University of Nottingham is great in behavioural. Now remove Simon Gaechter and see what happens. University of Leicester was great in theory. Then no more Chris Wallace and Ludovic Renou (and a crazy dean) and it's out of the map. Edinburgh fantastic in theory, also Royal Holloway. But it's a small group again.
Turnover is absurd and REF-driven. See the Israeli commuting to Warwick or Eyal Winter who managed to be announced at the same time in Leicester and Lancaster while staying in Jerusalem.

Important points. But can you give concrete examples of places and people? I mean, in how many departments can you say if X leaves department Z is screwed?

I wasn't talking about shameful REF appointments. But I agree with you it is ridiculous to see how REF panels continue to accept this and do nothing serious about it. The Eyal Winter case is quite telling: he emailed many heads of departments to essentially sell his outputs to the best bidder (and I know this for a fact). And the sad thing is that we know that departments like Surrey, Southampton, York, etc., have been buying their REFs for years. This is what Glasgow are trying to do now too. These places should be openly shamed. But RES, just like AEA on other matters, turns a blind eye on these things not to disturb the status quo.

With all due respect, REF is a much wider exercise that covers way more than just economics. RES can potentially lobby, but they cannot make the rules

4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
c0c2

^ RES has the ability to represent the Econ interests in REF panels. The REF contracts are much more common in Economics. And the fact that only 25 or so departments will be submitted out of close to 80 institutions who teach economics degrees is a failure of the UK's economics profession represented by the RES. They cannot make the rules, but they can raise these serious issues and I am sure they would be taken into account.

4 years ago # QUOTE 2 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
1522

REF is toilet - confirmed

4 years ago # QUOTE 0 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
d2b6

^ RES has the ability to represent the Econ interests in REF panels. The REF contracts are much more common in Economics. And the fact that only 25 or so departments will be submitted out of close to 80 institutions who teach economics degrees is a failure of the UK's economics profession represented by the RES. They cannot make the rules, but they can raise these serious issues and I am sure they would be taken into account.

Well, if RES insists on using Keele, which is admittedly more restrictive than ABS, it's no wonder economists in business schools will not submit to economics panel. RES biggest failure is failing to realise that economists also contribute to other business disciplines.

4 years ago # QUOTE 1 Volod 0 Vlad !
Economist
c0c2

^ yes, whichever way you look at it, the strategy of the main professional association of academic economists in the UK is not doing anything to save the discipline from death. I wouldn't be surprised if Econ is merged with business in REFs beyond 2020. Think about it: the quality of research of any department submitted to the Econ panel is far above any in the business panel outside the top 7/8. And yet, Econ departments keep disappearing (and not for lack of students).

4 years ago # QUOTE 5 Volod 0 Vlad !

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