1 UKAP outside London may be like about ~80K in cities like Denver, Minneapolis, or Indianapolis in US.Horespucky. The whole country is expensive with no commensurate rise in quality.
And I'm a full Prof at a B-school outside London who makes only 1.6 UKAP.
How's life with 1.6 UKAP outside London? Doable?
1 UKAP outside London may be like about ~80K in cities like Denver, Minneapolis, or Indianapolis in US.Horespucky. The whole country is expensive with no commensurate rise in quality.
And I'm a full Prof at a B-school outside London who makes only 1.6 UKAP.How's life with 1.6 UKAP outside London? Doable?
Nope. Small child, wife at home means massive amounts of debt. Very difficult to make ends meet.
UK is the worst. Public transport might be cheaper but you can’t rely on it exclusively. So you need a car. And guess what? Way more expensive than the US. Gas? Again a rip off. Insurance? You guessed it. You want an iPhone? Pay more than here. Candy? They have saturated it with fat tax. And housing? See if you can even afford a shared room in a decent city. Everything costs more than here, but you get paid less than here. I actually had a post doc offer from Oxford, turned it down for VLRM. My family back in Pakistan thought I was crazy. They love Oxbridge. But truth is that I don’t wanna starve and live like a grad student even after a Ph.D
I made the wrong decision by picking the postdoc position (in the top 4). And you are right they pay 38k for a post doc (I had pubs so was able to negotiate otherwise start at 34k).
In top 20, you start at 40k or 42k, below that, start at 36k. This is not a joke.
And compare these pathetic salaries with the US, Europe, and, hell even China, makes me sick every day. Dreaming of going back to the US every day. Or at least can anyone justify this f**king joke?
A car in Oxford? I don't think I ever met anyone using one.
Postdocs in Oxford do indeed pay 1 UKAP + free fancy dinners on college and free lunch coffee, etc... Some come with subsidized accommodation. Far from making you wealthy indeed. But the city is amazing with kids and you can still afford decent living standards unless you are the single earner supporting a family.
UK is the worst. Public transport might be cheaper but you can’t rely on it exclusively. So you need a car. And guess what? Way more expensive than the US. Gas? Again a rip off. Insurance? You guessed it. You want an iPhone? Pay more than here. Candy? They have saturated it with fat tax. And housing? See if you can even afford a shared room in a decent city. Everything costs more than here, but you get paid less than here. I actually had a post doc offer from Oxford, turned it down for VLRM. My family back in Pakistan thought I was crazy. They love Oxbridge. But truth is that I don’t wanna starve and live like a grad student even after a Ph.D
Why do we keep on going through this. First, preferences are heterogenous. Remember this. Second, Second, pay in the US is almost always higher, taxes are lower. Third, UK jobs tend to involve less teaching whether or not the admin takes you much time is idiosyncrwtic. Fourth, the relevant comparison is key. If you can go to a HRM US school you should. Period. But that choice applies to basically none of us. You may have a choice between LBS (which pays many UKAP) and a good US post in which case you decide if you prefer London to NYC, etc and your life will be great either way. A US MRM and oxbridge/Warwick/UCL offers a more interesting choice in theory but not in reality. If you need to be close to a major city for your apouse’s job/sanity then engerland has appeal. But, for most of us cheap flights to Europe and universal health care are not going to make up for 100k a year. You might have a harder choice between directional U in middle America and Surrey, especially if you bomb the market. In which case your choice depends on how much the square footage of your house matters, proximity to serious research so you can try and move up, how much having something/anything to do matters, and if you want your spouse to work or stay at home. Alternatively you may have a choice between Aberdeen Napier and somewhere with a border militia, again preferences are heterogenous. But industry anywhere in the world is a better option
Why do we keep on going through this. First, preferences are heterogenous. Remember this. Second, Second, pay in the US is almost always higher, taxes are lower. Third, UK jobs tend to involve less teaching whether or not the admin takes you much time is idiosyncrwtic. Fourth, the relevant comparison is key. If you can go to a HRM US school you should. Period. But that choice applies to basically none of us. You may have a choice between LBS (which pays many UKAP) and a good US post in which case you decide if you prefer London to NYC, etc and your life will be great either way. A US MRM and oxbridge/Warwick/UCL offers a more interesting choice in theory but not in reality. If you need to be close to a major city for your apouse’s job/sanity then engerland has appeal. But, for most of us cheap flights to Europe and universal health care are not going to make up for 100k a year. You might have a harder choice between directional U in middle America and Surrey, especially if you bomb the market. In which case your choice depends on how much the square footage of your house matters, proximity to serious research so you can try and move up, how much having something/anything to do matters, and if you want your spouse to work or stay at home. Alternatively you may have a choice between Aberdeen Napier and somewhere with a border militia, again preferences are heterogenous. But industry anywhere in the world is a better option
agreed; need to accept US and UK systems are different although the principles of economics work in the same manner in both countries.
There is a lot of heterogeneity and depends on your appointment.
If you look at the pdf below you'll see that lecturers (APs) are appointed at a minimum of £41.5k (or 1.1 UKAP) to a maximum of £52.5k (or 1.4 UKAP). Economists are usually appointed at the top. But these are also on-scale salaries and do not take into account market supplements (which kick in when you have a more lucrative competing offer). The supplements are about £15-£20k. So if you are in reasonably high demand then £70k is within reach (or about 1.9 UKAP). I think some London universities like LSE and UCL can also add a "London supplement" and go quite a bit higher. But I don't have precise information regarding this.
https://www.hr.admin.cam.ac.uk/files/single_salary_spine_as_at_1_august_2019.pdf
You have a lot of "I am full of s**t" misinformation.
No, there is no heterogeneity at all, Turrdd Issland is on pay scales, almost everybody pays the same.
And then there are the tweaks. The Champion of Turrdd Issland department of finance, will pay you 70-80k, but only if you have 2 top three publications.
There is a lot of heterogeneity and depends on your appointment.
If you look at the pdf below you'll see that lecturers (APs) are appointed at a minimum of £41.5k (or 1.1 UKAP) to a maximum of £52.5k (or 1.4 UKAP). Economists are usually appointed at the top. But these are also on-scale salaries and do not take into account market supplements (which kick in when you have a more lucrative competing offer). The supplements are about £15-£20k. So if you are in reasonably high demand then £70k is within reach (or about 1.9 UKAP). I think some London universities like LSE and UCL can also add a "London supplement" and go quite a bit higher. But I don't have precise information regarding this.
https://www.hr.admin.cam.ac.uk/files/single_salary_spine_as_at_1_august_2019.pdf
UKAP here.
Apart from LBS, LSE, IC, CASS(US Track), Warwick, the rest of the UKAP are paid around 37K. But there are exceptional cases like Cardiff who pays around or even less than 30K and Exeter now around 55-60K, Lancaster also 50-60K. On average the salary is around 37K. I am not sure why there are cheaters telling that UKAP gets paid much more than this figure. At least from the salaries of more than 30 people I know, the UKAP currency is very accurate.
Because they are lying cheating shysters that are paid 0.5 UKAPs to lie online.
Shysters need applications to be submitted, so that they can put it in their annual review how successful was the recruitment. This is how shysters get paid and promoted, by lying online.
And a correction to what you are saying: Warwick pays same s**t as everybody else 1UKAP for a lecturer, 1.5UKAPs for an associate prof.
And the good universities that you mentioned, sometimes pay better money. The majority of the time they do not, just like you specified for Cass (the US track or whatever they call it). Even the Champions of Turrdd Issland very often pay 1UKAP or 1.5UKAPs for Associate Professors.
UKAP here.
Apart from LBS, LSE, IC, CASS(US Track), Warwick, the rest of the UKAP are paid around 37K. But there are exceptional cases like Cardiff who pays around or even less than 30K and Exeter now around 55-60K, Lancaster also 50-60K. On average the salary is around 37K. I am not sure why there are cheaters telling that UKAP gets paid much more than this figure. At least from the salaries of more than 30 people I know, the UKAP currency is very accurate.